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barbk
05-01-2010, 10:38 PM
It is so sooo sad! :(

Finally Austria has one pair in pair skating and they cannot compete the next season at Euros, Junior Worlds and Worlds, because he would be too old for Junior Worlds and they would never reach the minimum score in the SP and FP for Euros and Worlds! :(

The bottom line is, that they will split :wuzrobbed

The age limit won't take effect for next year -- I don't think that would be a problem for them.

And isn't it just an SP qualification score for Worlds, as well as participating in a single ISU sanctioned event? If they can't meet the very low score shown in the proposal, might they not be better off staying home and working to improve their elements? (Most sincerely -- if they're really that weak on the elements then more practice is likely to do them a whole lot more good than watching Worlds because you didn't even make it out of qualifying.)

Ziggy
05-01-2010, 10:41 PM
It's not about the minimum scores. In case of pairs, a lot of the teams will be able to meet them.

But the number of people even being allowed to compete is reduced so drastically, they most likely will never get the chance.

And you need both competition experience and daily work in order to improve.

OlieRow
05-01-2010, 10:48 PM
And you need both competition experience and daily work in order to improve.

Not just that, but the ISU shouldn't underestimate the impact going to Worlds (finishing last/not qualifying/etc) and seeing what it takes to be competitive firsthand can have. Ex: Bin Yao.

elfenblüte
05-02-2010, 12:14 AM
The same is true for many small federations.

However small a federation, they have one vote in the ISU Congress. So I hope the Austrian Federation and all other smaller federations shall vote NO to this ISU proposition.

This rule change would kill figure skating in many small countries. They have nothing worse to fear from the ISU. It's as simple as that. :mad:

I hope too! I will write a mail to the Austrian federation.:)

elfenblüte
05-02-2010, 12:15 AM
The age limit won't take effect for next year -- I don't think that would be a problem for them.

And isn't it just an SP qualification score for Worlds, as well as participating in a single ISU sanctioned event? If they can't meet the very low score shown in the proposal, might they not be better off staying home and working to improve their elements? (Most sincerely -- if they're really that weak on the elements then more practice is likely to do them a whole lot more good than watching Worlds because you didn't even make it out of qualifying.)

But if they skate at the QR for Euros and/or Worlds and doesn't qualify to the SP, they have the experience and motivation to train more and reach the SP and the FP in the next season's European and World Championships.

The minimum score makes no sense to me, if they introduce a QR.

The ISU should let all skaters/pairs at least to the qualifying rounds and not exclude skaters from competing at the ISU Championships with a minimum score.

Bogie
05-02-2010, 12:26 AM
With the age restrictions for pairs and dance, it is unlikely they will have to worry about too many couples competing at ISU events for the next few years, at least. I can't believe they don't see the impact it could have on development. :(

barbk
05-02-2010, 02:26 AM
Not just that, but the ISU shouldn't underestimate the impact going to Worlds (finishing last/not qualifying/etc) and seeing what it takes to be competitive firsthand can have. Ex: Bin Yao.

Bin Yao could have learned just as much by going to a competition and watching every practice and competition segment. Competing in one qualifying round doesn't magically gift people with a certain level of knowledge. If he needed to know that he was terrible, I'm sure that he could have found himself judges who would have been happy to explain all of the places where he fell short.

I don't need to compete in a skating competition to know that my skills aren't up to international competitive levels.

BigB08822
05-02-2010, 02:45 AM
183 is ALL SORTS OF WIN!!!

183. SPS (single and pairs skating) TC: Jump combinations are evaluated as one unit by adding the base values of the jumps included, multiplying the result by 1.1 and after that applying the GOE with the numerical value of the most difficult jump.
Reason: to give more credit to jump combinations which are more difficult than the included jumps in isolation

OlieRow
05-02-2010, 03:25 AM
Bin Yao could have learned just as much by going to a competition and watching every practice and competition segment. Competing in one qualifying round doesn't magically gift people with a certain level of knowledge. If he needed to know that he was terrible, I'm sure that he could have found himself judges who would have been happy to explain all of the places where he fell short.

I don't need to compete in a skating competition to know that my skills aren't up to international competitive levels.

That might be true, but he credits that experience as having a huge impact on his drive to create the Chinese pairs dynasty.

From my rowing experience, I know I got far more out of racing a boat that won back-to-back NCAA Championships than I did going to watch NCAAs. It just doesn't compare to having them in the lane right next to you. I can see where being on the same ice as some of the World's best teams and being able to make direct comparisons could be a great learning tool. Not to mention what it would do to motivate younger skaters.

smarts1
05-02-2010, 03:59 AM
Some of these proposals don't make much sense to me........... Like the change in age limit for junior and the removal of the entire spiral from the short??? They don't even have to do one spiral?

shuilee
05-02-2010, 04:53 AM
183 is ALL SORTS OF WIN!!!

183. SPS (single and pairs skating) TC: Jump combinations are evaluated as one unit by adding the base values of the jumps included, multiplying the result by 1.1 and after that applying the GOE with the numerical value of the most difficult jump.
Reason: to give more credit to jump combinations which are more difficult than the included jumps in isolation

This should help Laura Lepisto and her 2sal/2toe/2loop combination get even more points. :lol:

key65man
05-02-2010, 05:15 AM
I didn't realize that the 3A option for Ladies short program would be put forth in this manner. Is safe to assume that this is almost a done deal. I suspect that a higher base value for 3A and the mid-point will find their ways in sooner or later. With all the additional weight on 3A, I cautiously predict that Sochi will be a war of under-rotated 3A's for ladies.

The restriction on 2A will not do much except widening the gap in score between better skaters and mediocre ones. The better ones easily find a way to live without it, but the mediocre ones cannot as they are not good jumpers in the first place, which is why they have not gotten many triples in their arsenal. This may shake up hardest those who fight to finish 19th. We may see a bigger splat fest.

The additional 10% bonus on combinations makes sense. How is it to be applied on poorly done combinations (e.g., UR, wrong edges, etc.)?

BigB08822
05-02-2010, 06:29 AM
This should help Laura Lepisto and her 2sal/2toe/2loop combination get even more points. :lol:

Can you imagine if she upgrades to 2flip/2toe/2loop next season. Can you say WORLD CHAMP!? :lol:

casken
05-02-2010, 07:53 AM
I can't imagine the cutting down of skaters to last more than a few seasons, if making past next season at all.

I have nothing to base that on of course, so carry on. :shuffle:

Artifice
05-02-2010, 10:59 AM
I get the idea of a 1.1 factor for jump combinations only if harder jumps base value is increased.
Jumps combinations are already getting more points in a program since their number is limited to 3 and the skaters who can do 3-3 combinations get more base value than those who can only do 3-2.
So this new factor will help skaters who tend to replace 3-2 by 2-2. Since it's easier to do a 2-2 than a 3-2 those skaters will get the 1.1 factor AND the positive GOE when skaters who do 3-2 or 3-3 will risk negative GOE and underrotation...
Lepisto is going to love it !!
But is it going in the right direction for sport ? I don't think so. For that the ISU would have to increase the base value of harder jumps, like quads. But obviously this is not in the pack.

As for spiral sequence this is going to help skaters who are not good on this element and those who used to get level 4 won't get much rewarded for their skill.
I don't think this is a good thing either. It's like the ISU was pulling FS down in doing a 180° after years of increasing skills level.