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RumbleFish
05-31-2010, 05:16 PM
Runnershigh, when you can talk about this issue without focusing only on two skaters, then I'll be more willing to discuss this with you.

:scream: :scream:


Gkelly You have a point, but still don't you think that falls were penalized more under the old system? I think it's probably because they judged the performances as a whole rather than dissecting it into parts and giving everything a value like they do now.

IIRC, 6.0 system had specific guideline regarding deductions for mistakes such as falls, wrong edge take-offs, underrotations.

Sylvia
05-31-2010, 05:26 PM
IIRC, 6.0 system had specific guideline regarding deductions for mistakes such as falls, wrong edge take-offs, underrotations.
Only for the short program -- see: http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_rules/isu_short_program_deductions.htm

miki88
05-31-2010, 05:58 PM
Only for the short program -- see: http://www.sk8stuff.com/f_rules/isu_short_program_deductions.htm

Thanks for the link. It makes sense since the short program was known as the technical program at one point. And it goes to show that falls did have the most deductions back then.

Ziggy
05-31-2010, 11:47 PM
In the old system, if you fall once, and your closest competitor skates clean, then you're not going to win. That's not the case under the new system.

Rotating jumps (even if you fall on them) is more difficult than cheating them.

RunnersHigh
06-01-2010, 01:10 AM
Runnershigh, when you can talk about this issue without focusing only on two skaters, then I'll be more willing to discuss this with you.

Where in my posts on this thread did you find the two skaters?

miki88
06-01-2010, 02:23 PM
ETA: After checking, gkelly you're right that falls does have more reduction than two-footed landing when added together.

kwanfan1818
06-01-2010, 02:32 PM
and I think they definitely do now since there's like a automatic -3 for those landings now. You're not going to say that a two-footed landing is worse than a fall now are you?
Who is getting automatic -3's for simply two-footing a landing, and no other flaws?

Under 6.0, a two-footed landing meant a jump couldn't be ratified.

gkelly
06-01-2010, 02:49 PM
But even if it is so, the penalty should be more than 1pt for falls. I think falls should be scored in terms of GOE. It's part of the execution of a jump. A two-footed landing can potentially have a greater deduction than falls, and I think they definitely do now since there's like a automatic -3 for those landings now. You're not going to say that a two-footed landing is worse than a fall now are you?

The total penalty for a jump with a fall IS more than 1 pt.

Falls are also penalized in GOE.

There is a required GOE reduction of -3 for both falls and landing on two feet, and the final GOE must be negative.

All the other phases of the jump besides the landing would have to be good enough for +1 or better for the final GOE of the element not to be -3. That's more likely with a jump combination than with a solo jump. It's also more likely with a two-foot landing than with a fall.

But suppose that the two-footed jump and the jump with the fall both end up with the same final GOE, either -3 or -2.

Then the fall will additionally be penalized with a fall deduction.

Artifice
06-01-2010, 02:52 PM
Rotating jumps (even if you fall on them) is more difficult than cheating them.

It can be for some skaters but not necesserely. Landing on one foot, standing up on a cheated jump is not necesserly easier than rotating and falling. It requires quite a lot of ability to stand up. Many times skaters fall because they didn't rotate the jump fully which means the balance is hard to keep when it is needed to adjust the landing.
Anyway both (falling and cheating) must be penalized, and it is.

query5
06-08-2010, 06:26 PM
i just thought of something--in the old days they only had--nationals, worlds, europeans, north americans during the olympic year-which totaled 5 events including olympics

instead of knocking out the fc/ euros they should knock out gp series for seniors--why '
lets see--natonals, worlds, europeans,fc 1 to 2 gp events if make it gp final, and olympics which make the total of 5 to 8 events during olympic year, knock out gp events it only makes 5 events.--just like old days and they have almost all year to practive for nationals and olympics,
to go to fc in us, they can use either placements, standing from last years natonals and/or worlds or use the summer competitions to see who goes