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Sylvia
05-06-2010, 09:10 PM
HisWeirness, would you like to start a new threads for ISU Communication #1610 (new ice dance FD requirements) and "Changes to Jump base values and GOE" (Communication 1611)? :)


My daughter plans to compete next week at Colonial Open in MA, will they be adopted before then?
No. USFS should have a notice on their site when any and all rule changes will take effect, so be on the lookout there. ETA link to check: http://www.usfsa.org/New_Judging.asp

Stormy
05-06-2010, 09:14 PM
Wow...lots of changes! When will these changes take place, regarding "under rotations" being different from "downgrades" and the changes regarding the changed base values? My daughter plans to compete next week at Colonial Open in MA, will they be adopted before then?

No, defintiely not. Whatever you have planned for her program right now does not need to change.

HisWeirness
05-06-2010, 09:15 PM
HisWeirness, would you like to start a new threads for ISU Communication #1610 (new ice dance FD requirements) and "Changes to Jump base values and GOE" (Communication 1611)? :)
Ok, I'll do both and copy the related posts from here, yadayadayada. ;)

Otherwise, too confusing! We'll keep the ISU proposals conversation here.

Here is the Free Dance requirements (1610) thread (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73439) to continue the FD discussion.

Here is the Changes to jump base values and GOE thread (1611) (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73440) to continue the singles/pairs scale of values, GOE, levels discussion.

Jenna
05-06-2010, 09:15 PM
No, defintiely not. Whatever you have planned for her program right now does not need to change.

Thanks for your response. Do you happen to know when theywillbe adopted? :)

Tammi
05-06-2010, 09:39 PM
Thanks for your response. Do you happen to know when theywillbe adopted? :)ISU updates for junior and senior will come through in early June. USFS Governing council updates for pre-juvenile through novice should already be reflected in the link that Sylvia posted above.

sezam
05-10-2010, 12:10 AM
IMO, the first jump in a sequence should be rewarded with 5% bonus and the second jump with 10%. And the first jump in a combination should be rewarded 10% and the second jump 20%. (or variations thereof)


IMO, the first jump (either in combination or in sequence) shouldn't be rewarded with any bonus - if the following jump is 2T or 3T, of euler (half loop). There might be some difficulty for the landing of the first jump when 2L or 3L is planned as the second, and then some bonus for the first jump might be calcualted.

However, the second, and possibly the third jump should be rewarded (but I wouldn't know how to quantify it now).

HisWeirness
05-27-2010, 01:09 AM
The ISU released yesterday an additional communication (#1615 (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1875)) dealing with some late-arriving proposals for the ISU Congress in June. Apparently these proposals were sent after the 1 December 2009 deadline.

The communication and the news item can be found here: http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/content/transnews/0,10869,4844-128610-19728-18886-307593-3572-4771-layout160-129918-news-item,00.html

There are five "urgent proposals." :COP: (These are not rules yet, just proposals)
**********
#1 is from the French Federation and proposes to:

Cancel the European and Four Continents ISU Championships in an Olympic year.
Replace them by the World ISU Championships at the same time (i.e. just before the Olympic Games).

Reason ... The Olympic Winter Games should logically be the summit of the Olympic season and the ISU World Championships, if held just before the Games, would become the theater of a much greater enthusiasm due to the increase in top level participation.

The full reasoning is fun to read...my favorite line is, "Out of the twelve Olympic medalists since 1998, at least half of them did not participate in the World Championships a month later. Therefore, revenge becomes impossible. " :lol:

I guess something may have been lost in translation but I love the :drama: of it!

Comment: I don't know if getting rid of Euros and 4CCs and replacing them with a pre-Olympics Worlds is the right idea, but the issue of how to handle ISU Championships in an Olympic year should be discussed. This proposal's reasoning seems to be more about Olympic medalists showing up at Worlds rather than about how to schedule the ISU events around the Olympics in a way that supports the skaters' needs. Why not just propose requiring Olympic medalists to compete at the Worlds following the Olympics if that is the main gripe here? :confused:
**********
Urgent Proposal #2 is about short track.
**********
#3 is from the Japanese Federation and asks that the "most difficult executed elements of the day" receive 2.0 Bonus points. The reasoning is to encourage skaters to attempt challenging elements.

Extraordinary and the most difficult executed elements of the day will receive a Bonus of 2.0 points. The Bonus will be awarded for maximum two for each program. These special elements will be decided by the Technical Committee and specified in the ISU Communication prior to the season. Comment: This proposal reminds me of the bonuses the Russian Federation awards during its domestic competitions. This could be interesting, depending on which elements are selected to get the Bonus...which could be percieved as or actually be politikal. :blocjudge
**********
#4 is a proposal from the ISU outlining what to do if the International Olympic Committee includes a figure skating team event.

#5 is a synchronized skating proposal regarding team registration.

kwanfan1818
05-27-2010, 01:51 AM
Why not just propose requiring Olympic medalists to compete at the Worlds following the Olympics if that is the main gripe here? :confused:

I like Worlds after the Olympics when the favorites don't show up.

But how would they enforce this? If they try to pressure the Federations by fining them or don't allow skaters to perform in shows until the beginning of the next season if they show up with doctors' notes or are mourning dead parents, I could see a lot more immediate post-Olympics retirements.

It's not like they can take away a medal awarded by another organization.

Thank you again for the summary!

jlai
05-27-2010, 02:01 AM
I like Worlds after the Olympics when the favorites don't show up.


Me too me too...

umronnie
05-27-2010, 06:31 AM
Oh, I think that post-Olympics Worlds are more exciting than the year before. There are always surprises, the emergence of new stars and an air of "changing of the guard". I thought that Torino, Calgari and Nagano were terriffic competitions. Minneapolis 98 less so, but that was a long time ago and nobody proposed this change then..

As for "revenge" - Mao over Kim, Joubert's comebacks (twice), Suguri over Cohen, Pang/Tong (twice) - aren't these "revenge" enough?

I also don't think the ISU has any power over the Oly medalists to force them to compete at worlds. Usually the ones who are planning to go on competing appear at worlds and the one who don't go reture from competition, anyway. Even if they do intend to go on, all they need to do is site a mediacl reason. There's a lot of stress on the body in an Olympic year. Some give up...

caseyedwards
05-27-2010, 06:53 AM
The ISU released yesterday an additional communication (#1615 (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1875)) dealing with some late-arriving proposals for the ISU Congress in June. Apparently these proposals were sent after the 1 December 2009 deadline.

The communication and the news item can be found here: http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/content/transnews/0,10869,4844-128610-19728-18886-307593-3572-4771-layout160-129918-news-item,00.html

There are five "urgent proposals." :COP: (These are not rules yet, just proposals)
**********
#1 is from the French Federation and proposes to:


The full reasoning is fun to read...my favorite line is, "Out of the twelve Olympic medalists since 1998, at least half of them did not participate in the World Championships a month later. Therefore, revenge becomes impossible. " :lol:

I guess something may have been lost in translation but I love the :drama: of it!

Comment: I don't know if getting rid of Euros and 4CCs and replacing them with a pre-Olympics Worlds is the right idea, but the issue of how to handle ISU Championships in an Olympic year should be discussed. This proposal's reasoning seems to be more about Olympic medalists showing up at Worlds rather than about how to schedule the ISU events around the Olympics in a way that supports the skaters' needs. Why not just propose requiring Olympic medalists to compete at the Worlds following the Olympics if that is the main gripe here? :confused:
**********
Urgent Proposal #2 is about short track.
**********
#3 is from the Japanese Federation and asks that the "most difficult executed elements of the day" receive 2.0 Bonus points. The reasoning is to encourage skaters to attempt challenging elements.
Comment: This proposal reminds me of the bonuses the Russian Federation awards during its domestic competitions. This could be interesting, depending on which elements are selected to get the Bonus...which could be percieved as or actually be politikal. :blocjudge
**********
#4 is a proposal from the ISU outlining what to do if the International Olympic Committee includes a figure skating team event.

#5 is a synchronized skating proposal regarding team registration.

3 makes me think that Japan is proposing Russian things LOL. That is the Russian system - it is why Plushenkos and Voronov's scores were so high! Plushenko 100 in the short program and 171 in the long program creating a high point 7 points above Takahashi's 4CC record if I am correct. If this was in place in Worlds 2010 Van Der Perrin would have recieved it on the mens side for sure and also Mao Asada for sure.

Marco
05-27-2010, 09:28 AM
Despite the obvious motive, I like the idea of awarding bonus points for the hardest element of the night. (To balance it out I think they should also award bonus points for the best element of the night).

One thing though, this might mean the skaters won't know their standings for sure at the K&C. Suppose B beats A by 1 point overall but A currently has the hardest element of the night. B can't celebrate yet until the rest has skated.

And Asada's 3axel might still lose to a 3lutz3toe. And then there would be another bunch of whiners crying "this should have been worth more than that!" :scream:

RumbleFish
05-27-2010, 10:08 AM
Despite the obvious motive, I like the idea of awarding bonus points for the hardest element of the night. (To balance it out I think they should also award bonus points for the best element of the night).

One thing though, this might mean the skaters won't know their standings for sure at the K&C. Suppose B beats A by 1 point overall but A currently has the hardest element of the night. B can't celebrate yet until the rest has skated.

They are saying that the ISU would designate an element, most likely the triple axel, as the special element prior to start of the season.
I guess JFA isn't completely sure that their skater will win the Worlds in Tokyo even with all the rule changes that ISU tech committee has prepared.

RunnersHigh
05-27-2010, 01:31 PM
Extraordinary and the most difficult executed elements of the day will receive a Bonus of 2.0 points. The Bonus will be awarded for maximum two for each program. These special elements will be decided by the Technical Committee and specified in the ISU Communication prior to the season.

BTW, What is the definition of extraordinary and the most difficult executed elements of the day? :confused:

Shaky 3A+2T or clean & huge 3T+3T?
3A+2T at the beginning or 3T+3T at the end?
Not so hot 3Lz+3Lo or humongous 3F+3T?
3A<+2T< or Pearl spin with over 20 rotations not losing in speed?

Just request to get rid of Zayak rule! Then your skaters may do 3As all along. :angryfire

Ziggy
05-27-2010, 02:03 PM
Despite the obvious motive, I like the idea of awarding bonus points for the hardest element of the night. (To balance it out I think they should also award bonus points for the best element of the night).

One thing though, this might mean the skaters won't know their standings for sure at the K&C. Suppose B beats A by 1 point overall but A currently has the hardest element of the night. B can't celebrate yet until the rest has skated.

And Asada's 3axel might still lose to a 3lutz3toe. And then there would be another bunch of whiners crying "this should have been worth more than that!" :scream:

Agree totally. Also what Runnershigh has said. How do you decide what was most difficult? Simply on point value?

And I also LOVE post-Olympic Worlds where you can see the change of guard. :)