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key65man
05-03-2010, 03:07 AM
But it is a true combination. Three jumps directly following each other without any breaks, extra steps, etc.

I guess you and bek really see half loop as a jump. I don't.

bek
05-03-2010, 03:19 AM
I guess you and bek really see half loop as a jump. I don't.

I see sequences as combinations. And I see that the sport has suffered now that people are doing really cool and difficult things like Plushenko's 3axel half loop 3flip. A combination like that absolutely should get 1.1 bonus points. Its just insane.

key65man
05-03-2010, 03:45 AM
I see sequences as combinations. And I see that the sport has suffered now that people are doing really cool and difficult things like Plushenko's 3axel half loop 3flip. A combination like that absolutely should get 1.1 bonus points. Its just insane.

I agree that 3A-half-loop-3F is a difficult thing to do. But, you are really generalizing the whole thing with one exceptional example.

I don't think I am insane. But, I might accept the accusation if you appeased me with a bottle of decent Vodka.

bek
05-03-2010, 03:54 AM
I agree that 3A-half-loop-3F is a difficult thing to do. But, you are really generalizing the whole thing with one exceptional example.

I don't think I am insane. But, I might accept the accusation if you appeased me with a bottle of decent Vodka.

I didn't mean you were insane. I was saying that combination 3axel half loop 3flip was insane.

Tammi
05-03-2010, 03:58 AM
It's actually a proposal to amend the ISU Constitution (to apply to all ISU disciplines). Proposal #20 was just proposed by the USA speed skating federation and not USFSA.Thanks HisWeirness.

key65man
05-03-2010, 03:58 AM
I didn't mean you were insane. I was saying that combination 3axel half loop 3flip was insane.

Not to worry, bek. I was poking fun at you in good nature. I know you are not a mean person -- I am. Sorry...

So is Ziggy.. :D

HisWeirness
05-03-2010, 04:25 AM
And here's a question would this also limit the 3toe seq double axel things to just one? Or are there different ways besides a half loop to achieve those things.
Any jump and then a 2A (or 3A) would require at least a step to get from the RBO landing edge to the LFO edge that an axel takes off of. Taking this step or a hop of some sort will continue to make jump+2A a sequence according to the proposals and not a combination.

The half loop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_jump) (but actually, a full single rotation) gets you from the RBO landing edge to a LBI edge needed for a salchow or flip takeoff. (assuming a counterclockwise jumper ;))

Marco
05-03-2010, 04:44 AM
I am expecting the majority of the federations (especially South Korean :D) to vote against the 3axel rule. They have nothing to gain by it, it'll just serve to increase the distance between their skaters and Mao.

Imagine if Yuna threatens to not come back if she will be forced to try a 3loop in the lp. :P

LilJen
05-03-2010, 07:26 AM
Why would anyone bother to use up the half loop in a 3-jump combo? A something-2t-2t would be worth more, presumably.

Ozzisk8tr
05-03-2010, 07:45 AM
Just playing devils advocate here, but if they are counting the half loop (euler) as a single jump, then what happens to any single revolution jump that you so often see in a footwork segment, or as a move in the field? Would this then be counted as a jumping pass? :confused:

Marco
05-03-2010, 07:51 AM
Why would anyone bother to use up the half loop in a 3-jump combo? A something-2t-2t would be worth more, presumably.

Because a 3toe half loop 3sal (9.9 under new rules) gives someone an opportunity to earn similar points to a 3toe3toe2toe (10.23 under new rules) without actually having to do a 3/3.

Rochette, if she returns, will benefit from this rule. She usually has a 3toe 3sal sequence in the second half of her lp which used to be a (rather consistent) 3toe half loop 3sal.

I can totally see Ashley Wagner taking advantage of this rule too:

3flip2toe
3loop
3toe
/
2axel half loop 3sal
3flip
3loop 2axel
3lutz

I was just wondering if there would be any ladies trying half loop 3flips? Maybe Asada could try 2axel half loop 3flip or 3loop half loop 3flip since she has been struggling with rotating 3/3s and the 2loops in her 3 jump combos?

elfenblüte
05-03-2010, 10:05 AM
Any pairs or dance teams who are pioneers from "smaller" skating countries, make tremendous sacrifices to be able to train these disciplines. Often they have to train abroad from a young age, they have hardly any sponsorship, next to no opportunities to skate in shows and hardly any recognition at home for their efforts.

Why do you think they do this? To go to a summer training camp? To skate in a B-international? No, they do it to skate at the Euros and the Worlds.

Skating at the Worlds means media coverage, possibly sponsorship, even if they are last. Having athletes at the World Championships means recognition and public funding for their federation. It means that young skaters from that country will believe that they belong to the sport and that they could do better.

Figure skating is already such a tiny sport in terms of the number of athletes and fans worldwide . Why does the ISU try to shrink it even further? Are they trying to make it disappear? :confused:

I agree. The new rules will destroy figure skating especially pair skating and ice dancing in many smaller countries, because many of them couldn't compete at ISU Championships anymore. :(

Artifice
05-03-2010, 10:43 AM
If a skaters does a 3T-half loop-3S is it still allowed to do do a 3 jumps combination after that, like a 3F-2T-2T ?

skatefan
05-03-2010, 11:08 AM
If a skaters does a 3T-half loop-3S is it still allowed to do do a 3 jumps combination after that, like a 3F-2T-2T ?
No because the half loop now counts as jump so the 3T-half loop-3S would become the three jump combination.
It's an improvement in that previously it would have been classed as a sequence and only receive 80% of the value.

Marco
05-03-2010, 11:11 AM
But jump sequences still only get 80% of their combined base value right?