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iarispiralllyof
04-25-2010, 04:49 AM
but do spirals still have to be done in "sequences" - I mean do you have to do 3 in succession? I remember in the 90's some skaters just did one or two positions and put them into the program where it would fit with the music. I prefer if they were just judged this way, otherwise it's so forced

pinky166
04-27-2010, 07:42 PM
I have a question, how do judges factor GOE? I'm always confused because I look at scoring sheets and see a bunch of +2s for GOE and then in the GOE column it's like 0.8. Like for Mirai at Worlds, all 9 judges gave her +3 for her layback spin, but then in the GOE column it said 1.5. Why is it this way? If all the judges gave her +3, shouldn't she get +3 instead of +1.5?

gkelly
04-27-2010, 08:45 PM
I have a question, how do judges factor GOE? I'm always confused because I look at scoring sheets and see a bunch of +2s for GOE and then in the GOE column it's like 0.8. Like for Mirai at Worlds, all 9 judges gave her +3 for her layback spin, but then in the GOE column it said 1.5. Why is it this way? If all the judges gave her +3, shouldn't she get +3 instead of +1.5?

Look at the Scale of Values (http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/200809-SP-SOV.pdf).
The judges don't factor it -- the computer program does.

LilJen
04-27-2010, 09:36 PM
That's true. Most skaters don't do proper spirals a-la Yuna Kim... But for those who can, they're just beautiful.

I thing I never understood is that many ladies can do split jumps (full split) and biellman spins (meaning they need good flexibility to do it), but they can barely get above they're hip in the spiral. Does anyone know why? It just doesn't make sense to me. For example, Joannie can do a full split yet her classic back spiral barely gets over her hip.

Split jumps and Bielmanns take flexibility, yes, but it takes an additional amount of SERIOUS strength in the butt muscles and back to hold/push your leg up. And you have to have flexibility way beyond 180 degrees to get a spiral that's 180 degrees.

Also, we've been spoiled by a few super flexible skaters to think that spiral = splits (180 degrees), when the edging and body position and steadiness of the blade on the ice are all tremendously important parts of a spiral. And I would hardly call this (http://www.xxx-olympic-games.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Joannie-Rochette-Vancouver-olympics.jpg) or this (http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee58/discolights444/2008-04/034.jpg) "barely above hip level."

smarts1
04-27-2010, 10:23 PM
Okay so it's not barely, but they aren't the full splits they could be capable of But in my opinion, the leg should at least be a tad bit higher with their flexibility (Biellmans and full splits).

VIETgrlTerifa
04-27-2010, 10:31 PM
Also, we've been spoiled by a few super flexible skaters to think that spiral = splits (180 degrees), when the edging and body position and steadiness of the blade on the ice are all tremendously important parts of a spiral. And I would hardly call this (http://www.xxx-olympic-games.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Joannie-Rochette-Vancouver-olympics.jpg) or this (http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee58/discolights444/2008-04/034.jpg) "barely above hip level."

I don't really think spirals have to be in a split position in order to be aesthetically-pleasing and I greatly value edge control and speed over flexibility. However, the bodylines of Kim's and Rochette's are pretty hideous.

LilJen
04-28-2010, 01:10 AM
I think Joannie's spirals are lovely. Yu-Na DESPERATELY needs to learn how to stretch her leg and point her toe--drives me nuts!!

Lanie
04-28-2010, 01:14 AM
I can't believe some girls don't lock the leg and point their toes. It's not just about flexibility, it's about holding the position and making it look attractive. Bent knees and hanging feet are not pretty. Joannie sometimes does this, but Yu-na does it all the time. It drives me crazy too. Joannie's look quite lovely in person, much better than in photos or in television. I wonder why.

I like the idea of no required SpSq for ladies, so they can do them but do them well instead of having to contort themselves for level fours.

VIETgrlTerifa
04-28-2010, 01:52 AM
I don't mind spiral sequences in the SP. SPs are designed to have elements listed so judges can compare skaters based on those specific elements.

However, the LP needs to get rid of the spiral sequences because they're really pointless. Allow skaters to do spirals within the program when it makes sense with the music and choreography.

gkelly
04-28-2010, 02:05 AM
That (spiral sequence required in the SP, not in the LP) been exactly the situation for junior ladies for the last two years or so. Does that work for you?

VIETgrlTerifa
04-28-2010, 07:21 AM
Yes, I believe so.

Lookingood
04-28-2010, 05:07 PM
I love Speed and edge's in Spirals.
never really cared much about point toes.

iarispiralllyof
04-28-2010, 05:49 PM
it's not really about pointed toes even. a lot of these ppl have great speeds but their body lines (as has been said) are bad. so it's like they're gliding along awkwardly with their knees bent and their legs looking out of place and quivering/wobbling without security. the spiral is supposed to be majestic but in those instances it just looks awkward lol

ambern024
05-02-2010, 09:22 PM
IMO someone can have a full split in their spiral and it still not look pretty. I think it all has to do with the stretch in their back. It looks so much better when the chest is upright and ur in a split. Ya if ur bending more at the neck then ur back not so pretty.