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Erica Lee
10-09-2010, 11:36 AM
I'm sorry those people near you did not react in a way you'd have hoped - but in direct response to your request, they were being completely honest with you. You can't "turn off" the noise of a shutter in a DSLR camera. Certain cameras have louder shutters than others, but even the best of them do make an audible noise. Usually the music is loud enough to overpower such noises, but even then, you can still hear it.

I can definitely understand how that noise could get on the nerves of those that would rather not have their attention distracted and now that DSLR cameras are more and more common, it is more prevalent of an issue. I agree that something should be done to ensure the enjoyment of everyone.

However, with this policy, Skate Canada is picking sides. They are trying to ensure the enjoyment of those that do not like cameras (as they should), but they are completely ignoring the enjoyment of those that like to take pictures.

People who take pictures don't do it to annoy others. Most truly worry about those around them. But taking away their cameras and telling them they cannot do what they do will really, truly, honestly take away from their enjoyment of an event. I've heard many non-photogs say "Can't you just watch? I just watch and I enjoy it just fine!" but no, for many, "just watching" is not why they're there and no, they won't enjoy it.

I know the people this policy effects. I've seen them at events time and time again. These fans are loyal. They are there year after year, event after event. It is not wise to completely ignore the wants of this group. This policy is a bit of a slap in the face to them (the message is... "you... you're harming our events by what you're doing and we don't like it... so please go away"). It is not good policy to alienate a segment of your most loyal customers and supporters of your organization. That is why I am suggesting that, if Skate Canada wanted to be smart about it, a true compromise could be found that was a win-win for both "types" of fans. Honestly, it wouldn't be terribly difficult and I've thought a lot about it - it would be completely doable with a bit of extra effort (which, IMO, would be more than worthwhile).

I get annoyed by things at events, too. I've sat in front of people who have insisted to colour commentate every single skater to their neighbours. That annoys me. I've sat in front of children that kicked my seat a good portion of the time. That annoys me. I've had drinks spilled on me or my belongings. That annoys me. People constantly crunching on food annoys me. Someone sick that coughs and sniffles the whole time annoys me. People that insist on getting up and down constantly annoy me. My point is that no matter how many policies you put in place... you cannot ensure that every single person in an arena is going to have the kind of skating-watching environment they prefer. When I buy a ticket to an event, I don't buy my own personal bubble. I know it's a gamble as to who I will end up sitting near and that I'm going to have to bring my patience and my understanding and just let the things that could bother me roll off my back. Cameras are more visible - you can more easily regulate them and set up a policy for them... the other things I mentioned annoy me as much as cameras annoy some people.. but you can't police them.

I don't know.. this whole thing just gets under my skin a bit and I truly feel for the people it affects (for the record, it doesn't personally affect me currently so I'm not doing all this rambling for my own benefit... ). [I'm also very anti-banning technology in general. I helped develop policies at schools that embrace facebook and cell phones for positive classroom uses. I find banning is a very reactive and ineffective solution to, granted very valid, problems. I find it always works out better for all concerned when solutions are found to turn the "issue" at hand into something productive and positive.]

[But then again, this only addresses the "fan enjoyment" issue... this is why I expressed earlier that I wish I knew the true intentions behind this new policy... there may be other, more pressing, reasons for this policy than just keeping those that don't want to hear clicks happy. In which case, other aspects would have to be analyzed. But honestly, I have not yet met an amateur photographer that means any harm. I am sure a solution could be reached that satisfies both sides.]

Norlite
10-09-2010, 01:02 PM
You didn't, so please don't come in here and then lash out at the rest of us that do use common sense and are polite to those around us at events.


There was nothing in Peter's post that even vaguely resembled "lashing out" at those who do use politeness and common sense in an arena.


And Peter, (and anyone else for that matter) please do continue to "come in here" and share your opinion and thoughts ( whether for or against, and definitely if they happen to be a wee bit snarky. This is FSU after all ;) ) on this subject or any other. I, and others, alway enjoy them.


Erica Lee- excellent suggestions. Hope you've already e-mailed them to SC.


Ok, so I'll leave my DSL at home and take the point and shoot. Thanks for the info shutterbug.

PeterG
10-09-2010, 06:39 PM
BTW, that last sentence of yours, while I am sorry idiots were so ignorant of you and the others around them at last year's Skate America, is not appreciated. I get you were ticked, but as I said, you could have gone and taken it to the usher. You didn't, so please don't come in here and then lash out at the rest of us that do use common sense and are polite to those around us at events.

Sorry, it reads like I'm directing my thoughts at you because I had quoted something you said. I was not lashing out at you at all. I quoted you as it made me think more about the situation I experienced. And I ended up venting about the insensitive people in front of us, who didn't even offer to take less pictures...or anything.

I am sure I would enjoy sitting with you at a skating event. Hope your camera is digital. I'd love to see your shots between skaters! :40beers:


However, with this policy, Skate Canada is picking sides. They are trying to ensure the enjoyment of those that do not like cameras (as they should), but they are completely ignoring the enjoyment of those that like to take pictures.

But SC isn't saying, "no more cameras!!" I don't know about high-tech photography equipment, but I have assumed they're saying "no more cameras that interfere with the enjoyment of others".


entire post

:respec:

Erica Lee
10-09-2010, 07:35 PM
But SC isn't saying, "no more cameras!!" I don't know about high-tech photography equipment, but I have assumed they're saying "no more cameras that interfere with the enjoyment of others".

They have specifically said no more DSLR cameras by saying "no cameras with detachable lenses". Everything I has said applies only to fans that use DSLRs... I thought I had implied that but perhaps I should have specified. Any fan that has invested in a DSLR takes their photography a little more on the serious side, and as such, will probably care about such things as image quality and will not be happy with "downgrading" to a point and shoot camera. So for them, SC is saying "not your camera!".

shutterbug
10-10-2010, 01:49 AM
Thanks very much for pleading our case Erica. :) Youíve made some great suggestions. Iíd be more than happy to pay extra for the privilege of taking pictures. If I can echo Norlite, please do send your thoughts to SC. I donít know if it will change anything now that the policy has gone in the other direction, but it canít hurt to offer some alternatives. For the record, in the 12 years Iíve been taking pictures at skating events, not once has anyone complained. If anything, people around me are intrigued and helpful, especially when they find out Iím doing it just for fun.

All that being said, Iím wondering if this isnít more about videos than photos. Changing the policy just a few weeks before the event seems really odd. I doubt that they suddenly got a barrage of complaints about people taking pictures. At nats in Vancouver I sat in the middle of the Skate Canada people (including William Thompson and Mike Slipchuk), and no one batted an eyelash at my camera. Itís not like Gerard Chatigeau is worried about some fan sitting up in row 12 with an entry-level DSLR getting better pictures. :lol: But, there are an awful lot of high quality fan vids floating around now that no doubt should not have been taken. Iíve never been to a skating event or show that allowed video recording of any kind. Cameras were banned entirely from Shall We Dance, but vids showed up anyway. Now that pretty much all DSLRís have HD video capability, the decision may have been made to ban them because thereís no easy way to police the situation. And it may not have been Skate Canadaís decision.

For sure this is going to impact my enjoyment of the event. :( But since my flight is non-refundable, Iíll give the point & shoot thing a try here and see how I feel. I may opt to save my money in the future and stay home and watch the events on bold. Which would be unfortunate because the local skating communities benefit financially from hosting these events and Iíd love to keep supporting grassroots skating in Canada.

kimkom
10-10-2010, 02:00 AM
For sure this is going to impact my enjoyment of the event. :( But since my flight is non-refundable, Iíll give the point & shoot thing a try here and see how I feel. I may opt to save my money in the future and stay home and watch the events on bold. Which would be unfortunate because the local skating communities benefit financially from hosting these events and Iíd love to keep supporting grassroots skating in Canada.

Do you mean you would rather not go to any live event just because you can't use your DSLR? Don't you enjoy watching figure skating live?

No matter how I tried to word this, it still sounded snarky, and I really don't mean it that way...I'm just curious.

I brought my DSLR to the last two Skate Canada competitions I attended, but I find it so distracting to take pictures - I miss way too much of the actual skating.

Casey2
10-10-2010, 02:38 AM
I'm from the USA so the photo restrictions will not apply to me. However, as a fan of FS I do object to other fans who infringe on my enjoyment of the event whether it be taking photos or video or talking or returning to their seats after a skater has begun their routine. Every ticket holder is entitled to a good quality experience that should not be spoiled by another ticket holder. They are both entitled to an enjoyable event.

At the recent Cleveland Nationals, we sat next to a couple who (I am sure) waited until a skater took the ice and then descended to their seats inside ours. The male commented continually on the skating during the routine as if he was in his living room. (The woman in front of him finally told him to hold his commentary until after the skater was finshed.

So, there are many ways other fans can REALLY annoy one. It would be nice if a civil reminder would be enough to stop inappropriate actions.

shutterbug
10-10-2010, 06:22 AM
Do you mean you would rather not go to any live event just because you can't use your DSLR? Don't you enjoy watching figure skating live?

No matter how I tried to word this, it still sounded snarky, and I really don't mean it that way...I'm just curious.

I brought my DSLR to the last two Skate Canada competitions I attended, but I find it so distracting to take pictures - I miss way too much of the actual skating.

No, thatís a fair question. And the honest answer is I donít know. Iíve never been to a major skating event without taking pictures. Hooked from the first click. :) Iím on the ice myself 9 months out of the year, so I see a fair bit of live skating. Weíll see how it goes. Someone will have to tie me down for the ice dance events for sure. :lol:

SaSherka
10-19-2010, 05:29 PM
Don't remember if this has been posted, but this website should be useful for visitors:
http://www.cityofkingston.ca

PDF file of the downtown municipal parking lots (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/downloads/maps/MAP_ParkingLots_Downtown_100419.pdf)

rvi5
10-21-2010, 02:42 PM
What's up with BOLD.

I wanted to preset my DVR to record Skate Canada International. BOLD only has skating listed for Friday Oct 29th. Nothing for Saturday or Sunday. Although the other CBC channels have figure skating listed for Saturday and Sunday, I suspect it will not be the full competition.

victorskid
10-21-2010, 09:37 PM
According to the schedule published by Skate Canada, Bold was to have live coverage of the full competition on all three days, including live coverage of the gala which will be shown a week later on CBC.

rvi5
10-22-2010, 12:49 AM
Although it was not listed yesterday evening, figure skating has now appeared for Saturday and Sunday on BOLD. I suspect Cogeco is slow updating their TV guide information.

rvi5
10-22-2010, 11:33 PM
For those who plan to take VIA rail to Skate Canada International in Kingston, and missed the last 60% off sale, they are having another for the Quebec City/Windsor corridor (which should include Toronto/Kingston). Tickets must be purchased by October 26. Read more at their website...

http://www.viarail.ca/en/60-percent-sale

flowerpower
10-24-2010, 03:09 PM
^ Thanks very much for the info. The savings are substantial.

jtpc
10-26-2010, 12:19 AM
Someone has just posted on twitter (the same is also on kijiji) they are selling 4 all event tickets in the 4th row at centre ice, for just $260 for all 4...so just $65 a ticket. What a great deal that is! :)

Can't wait for this weekend! It's a shame Virtue/Moir and Dube/Davison won't be there, but it will still be nice to see some skating.