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Holley Calmes
03-31-2010, 02:15 PM
Well, just because someone takes ballet doesn't mean that they readily and naturally absorb the principals and put them to use, or that the instruction is that great anyway. I would imagine where Rachael trains has great ballet instruction. But based on her body type, ballet might not be a natural thing for her and will be harder for her to make look like good ballet. I'm not criticizing her-I think she's a wonderful athlete and scholar, and I applaud her efforts. But not everybody can have that beautiful line and posture no matter how hard they work at it. (But they can get better......:slinkaway )

My ballerina daughter had both good and bad instruction. She wound up with great instruction, but she never overcame a few bad habits obtained from the years of less than gpood instruction, even though she went pro. One class of ballet a week might help a little, but if one is not a natural, it would take a lot more. Like maybe 5 times a week.

Debbie S
03-31-2010, 02:18 PM
RE Gao and Zawadzki, does anyone know if they will be Seniors next season?If you mean nationally, Gao is already in Seniors - she finished 5th at Nats this year. Zawadzki will likely move up, since she won Juniors this year. In terms of int'l comps, I assume both will compete on the JGP, although Zawadzki could get at least one Senior GP b/c of her JW medal, but she didn't compete on the JGP this past fall, so I expect she'll do that this coming season.

chipso1
03-31-2010, 04:25 PM
If you mean nationally, Gao is already in Seniors - she finished 5th at Nats this year. Zawadzki will likely move up, since she won Juniors this year. In terms of int'l comps, I assume both will compete on the JGP, although Zawadzki could get at least one Senior GP b/c of her JW medal, but she didn't compete on the JGP this past fall, so I expect she'll do that this coming season.

Gao is also guaranteed 1 SGP event due to her JGPF bronze medal. As the #4 U.S. lady (assuming Sasha doesn't compete on the GP), I fully expect Gao to move up to senior internationally next season. She can still do Jr. Worlds if she gets selected for it, but she's really not going to gain a whole lot by doing another season the JGP.

pinky166
03-31-2010, 05:09 PM
Gao is also guaranteed 1 SGP event due to her JGPF bronze medal. As the #4 U.S. lady (assuming Sasha doesn't compete on the GP), I fully expect Gao to move up to senior internationally next season. She can still do Jr. Worlds if she gets selected for it, but she's really not going to gain a whole lot by doing another season the JGP.

I agree, I think Gao will do the SGP. Agnes could do either but I think it would be smarter for her to do the JGP to gain some international experience and reputation. She'll have senior programs for nationals so if she gets selected to go to Worlds next year then she would be prepared.

Stephanie
04-01-2010, 12:30 AM
I think there's a decent chance Zawadzki will do the SGP as well. She certainly has the jumps and has a realistic shot at making the world team...she just seems ready for seniors for me.

Iceman
04-01-2010, 02:00 AM
Also, the fact that Flatt proudly proclaims that she has never taken a ballet class really makes me shudder. Yeah, Rachael, it's obvious. No surprise there... Not impressed.


Where did you get your misinformation?




" I skate two sessions before school each day and two sessions after school each day. Off ice work (strength and conditioning, off ice jumps, ballet, etc) is worked in later in the afternoons after all my On Ice work is completed. Then, it is home for homework, dinner, more homework, hanging out with my dogs, Lucy and Ethel, and time for bed."
http://figureskating.about.com/od/youngfigureskaters/p/flatt.htm

freezin'rinkmom
04-01-2010, 02:06 AM
I think there's a decent chance Zawadzki will do the SGP as well. She certainly has the jumps and has a realistic shot at making the world team...she just seems ready for seniors for me.

I seriously doubt USFS will send Agnes out to the SGP. She has no JGP experience, outside of Jr Worlds. And, she has to choose before the start of the season if she will compete Sr or Jr internationally. Her best hope as a Sr is that USFS sends her to SA, and maybe a Sr B. As a Jr, she hopefully will have the opportunity to do one JGP, do well (medal) and then get assigned a second JGP, qualify for the JGPF, and then compete as a Sr within the USA. A number of US ladies have followed that same path in recent years, including Rachael and Mirai and Caroline and Ashley and Christina. Wouldn't hurt Agnes to get some experience internationally under her blades as a Jr, which is what I suspect will happen.

pinky166
04-01-2010, 02:52 AM
I seriously doubt USFS will send Agnes out to the SGP. She has no JGP experience, outside of Jr Worlds. And, she has to choose before the start of the season if she will compete Sr or Jr internationally. Her best hope as a Sr is that USFS sends her to SA, and maybe a Sr B. As a Jr, she hopefully will have the opportunity to do one JGP, do well (medal) and then get assigned a second JGP, qualify for the JGPF, and then compete as a Sr within the USA. A number of US ladies have followed that same path in recent years, including Rachael and Mirai and Caroline and Ashley and Christina. Wouldn't hurt Agnes to get some experience internationally under her blades as a Jr, which is what I suspect will happen.

I agree, and I think Tom will encourage her to do that. It's also easy to forget how young she is, Agnes is still just 15, Christina looks younger but is actually half a year older. Realistically Agnes making the World team next year with only 2 spots is probably a stretch, I see the spots going to Mirai and Ashley or maybe Rachael if she competes next season. Also, competing on the JGP won't hurt her chances to go to Worlds, she'll have her senior programs ready for nationals anyways, and if she gets assigned to Jr Worlds again (which is more likely), then she'll have junior programs ready that she has performed and practiced all season and will have a very good shot at winning the title. Also, doing well at JGP events and making and likely medaling at the JGPF will boost her rankings more than mediocre results on the SGP (which she would likely get just because of PCS and being unknown).

jlai
04-01-2010, 03:00 AM
Going by the history of Tom's other skaters, I think Agnes will pay her dues in JGP first. Tom's kids tend to stay junior until they're ready.

v.Nistelrooy
04-01-2010, 06:45 AM
I think there's a decent chance Zawadzki will do the SGP as well. She certainly has the jumps and has a realistic shot at making the world team...she just seems ready for seniors for me.

ITA:cheer2::cheer2:

haribobo
04-01-2010, 07:09 AM
Her best hope as a Sr is that USFS sends her to SA, and maybe a Sr B.

As a junior worlds medalist, she is guaranteed a GP event. She'd probably get 2.

To pinky- I don't envision Agnes having mediocre results on senior GP. Her jumps are amazing, and if she got into the top group with a clean SP, she'd get decent to good PCS. She's not *that* unknown- now she's Jr. Worlds silver medalist. If Laura Lepisto can win bronze at Worlds with that content, Agnes can medal at a JGP. Trust.

Not sure what her plans are anyway.....but if she continues on her path, she'd be successful in either junior or senior. And there's no reason she wouldn't be competitive with anyone in the US, even Mirai (unless Mirai gets all her jumps clean, then she's untouchable in the US). I've been wildly impressed by her so far. IMO, she is so ready for senior GP. :cheer:

chipso1
04-01-2010, 04:58 PM
As a junior worlds medalist, she is guaranteed a GP event. She'd probably get 2.

To pinky- I don't envision Agnes having mediocre results on senior GP. Her jumps are amazing, and if she got into the top group with a clean SP, she'd get decent to good PCS. She's not *that* unknown- now she's Jr. Worlds silver medalist. If Laura Lepisto can win bronze at Worlds with that content, Agnes can medal at a JGP. Trust.

Not sure what her plans are anyway.....but if she continues on her path, she'd be successful in either junior or senior. And there's no reason she wouldn't be competitive with anyone in the US, even Mirai (unless Mirai gets all her jumps clean, then she's untouchable in the US). I've been wildly impressed by her so far. IMO, she is so ready for senior GP. :cheer:

ITA. Agnes has a full arsenal of triples and would do quite well on the SGP, I think.

I think she'll definitely be in the mix for a Senior World berth next season, challenging Flatt/Wagner/Gao (like you said, I think Nagasu is untouchable if she goes clean and her jumps are rotated). Agnes has nice flexibility and spins (both better than Flatt), and her jumps usually receive great GOE. 105+ is a great FS score for a junior lady, and I can see her hitting the 115~ range if she goes clean in a senior free skate.

Cal Girl
04-01-2010, 05:07 PM
Agnes is a beautiful skater with good height on her jumps and nice positions in her spins but something tells me that she is not done growing and will face a year or so of growing pains. At this point her skating is a bit juniorish and if she can add a bit more polish and edge quality with holding her positions longer she will do fine as a senior lady but the SGP is a whole different ballgame.

pinky166
04-01-2010, 05:24 PM
As a junior worlds medalist, she is guaranteed a GP event. She'd probably get 2.

To pinky- I don't envision Agnes having mediocre results on senior GP. Her jumps are amazing, and if she got into the top group with a clean SP, she'd get decent to good PCS. She's not *that* unknown- now she's Jr. Worlds silver medalist. If Laura Lepisto can win bronze at Worlds with that content, Agnes can medal at a JGP. Trust.

Not sure what her plans are anyway.....but if she continues on her path, she'd be successful in either junior or senior. And there's no reason she wouldn't be competitive with anyone in the US, even Mirai (unless Mirai gets all her jumps clean, then she's untouchable in the US). I've been wildly impressed by her so far. IMO, she is so ready for senior GP. :cheer:

She is ready for SGP it might just be smarter for her to do JGP, it's not that she "can't handle" seniors just that she'd really be a star in juniors. Also, she is very tall and quite angular right now, she could get even taller and will likely fill out a fair amount over the next year, and for these reasons JGP might be a better idea. Mirai last year had a very rough GP season and I think it hurt her this year, she was so underscored at SC, she should have won silver and they gave her 4th, less than 60 points for her SP and barely 100 for a great FS, which put her behind Alissa who had multiple falls in the FS, Joannie who also had an awful FS, and Laura who doubled almost all her jumps in the FS. Agnes is a shoo-in for the JGPF and likely wouldn't make the SGPF just considering Mao and Miki are sticking around, Yuna and Joannie might be competing too, and Mirai showing so much improvement, leaving the remaining spots likely to be filled by Laura, Carolina, Kanako, a Russian girl, Ashley, Rachael if she sticks around, etc. She can do what she wants, but if Worlds is her goal doing the JGP won't hurt her, she'll be at senior nationals and the SPs for both events don't need to be changed.

pinky166
04-02-2010, 03:42 AM
ITA. Agnes has a full arsenal of triples and would do quite well on the SGP, I think.

I think she'll definitely be in the mix for a Senior World berth next season, challenging Flatt/Wagner/Gao (like you said, I think Nagasu is untouchable if she goes clean and her jumps are rotated). Agnes has nice flexibility and spins (both better than Flatt), and her jumps usually receive great GOE. 105+ is a great FS score for a junior lady, and I can see her hitting the 115~ range if she goes clean in a senior free skate.

I just watched her FS from junior worlds and noticed a few things. Her jumps are terrific and she does all the different triples but she also has no speed (for someone with legs as long as her's she's really pretty slow) and her feet are huge, suggesting she will grow more and considering she's already 5'6" that could mean trouble. Also, her sit spins are nice but her biellman isn't particularly pretty, and she seems to be a "designated jumper" type of skater and doesn't have much artistry or expression right now. I think JGP would be a smart move, she still has a lot of things to work on.