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Cheylana
03-28-2010, 08:17 PM
Why is everyone so sure Christina G and Agnes Z will overtake Rachael, they didn't exactly set Junior Worlds on fire, and have they conquered puberty yet? I like them, but as usual, time will tell.

I like Rachael, true she lacks Mirai's "it" factor but improving her speed and posture would go a long way for her. Can she, at 17, still do these things or has that ship sailed? Not sure how difficult it is to correct posture in particular.

As for the untoned look, could it be because she is kind of pale? I can't imagine that her muscles are not well defined considering the high level of skating and jumping she's pulling off!

haribobo
03-28-2010, 08:19 PM
As we have seen the last four years, it is very difficult to predict the future. In 2008 wern't the current crop of up and coming girls supposed to be so good that we would earn 3 spots back once they started competing at the sr. level?

It sure did look that way at the time, before Nagasu's injury/growth spurt, Ashley's loss of consistency, Zhang's fall from grace, and Rachael's lack of improvement. Czisny was able to step into that void last year but her jumping problems dogged her at Worlds again. So this year, the Worlds team was back to what it was supposed to be...and things looked good after the SP but then the FS happened. It sure does go to show you can't predict anything, and Rachael can continue to be one of the best in the US. I just don't know how much more she can accomplish internationally with those skills...but I suppose we'll see!

For now, the Cohen/Kwan/Hughes era of 10 years ago continues to look better and better in retrospect. You could always count on them to get the 3 spots, but the downside of that is they always filled them- no variety or unpredictability got kind of boring...

ice.dance.girl
03-28-2010, 08:25 PM
As for number of classes- some schools require a full load, others will let you just take 1 class at a time and still be degree seeking. I expect the programs she's in expect at least a half-load. She didn't apply to slacker schools

Nothing wrong with taking only one class! That doesn't mean you're going to a slacker school.

JJH
03-28-2010, 08:26 PM
Haven't I read that Rachael is taking 5 or so AP classes? Those tests are coming up in May, I believe. Many students prep for them as they would for the ACTs or SATs. Depending on how well she does and what her selected college's policy is for acceptance of credit, she can accrue quite a bit of college credit that would lessen her load for her Freshman year.

pinky166
03-28-2010, 09:11 PM
Why is everyone so sure Christina G and Agnes Z will overtake Rachael, they didn't exactly set Junior Worlds on fire, and have they conquered puberty yet? I like them, but as usual, time will tell.

I like Rachael, true she lacks Mirai's "it" factor but improving her speed and posture would go a long way for her. Can she, at 17, still do these things or has that ship sailed? Not sure how difficult it is to correct posture in particular.

As for the untoned look, could it be because she is kind of pale? I can't imagine that her muscles are not well defined considering the high level of skating and jumping she's pulling off!

Agnes is like 5'6" and looks pretty mature, I think she's conquered puberty. Christina probably also has too even though she's stick thin, she's 16 and her body doesn't look that different from Yuna or Mao who have both been done growing for a couple years now. They also have better jumping technique that Rachael, their jumps are always rotated and bigger and stronger than Rachael's. They are also better in terms of spins and flexibility. Plus I'm not going to lie, I think Christina's body type will come in handy on the senior ranks, I mean we saw the scores Lepisto can get with 3 triples, Christina is flexible, long limbed and skinny so even if she does develop jump issue I think the judges will like her.

Rachael should do whatever she wants, but at this point I do see her as being similar to an Emily, Bebe, or Alissa - all of whom didn't have it in them to make it internationally on a regular basis. With Mirai doing so well and Christina, Agnes, Kiri, and all those other junior girls who beat Kiri at nationals on the rise, I think it will become pretty tough for her to consistently make World teams in the near future. Plus internationally there are so many stars on the rise, I mean you've seen those Russian girls right? There are like 12 of them that are all amazing at the age of 13. Caroline I don't think has much of a future either unless she gets a new coach and totally reworks everything in her skating. Ashley will be put ahead of Rachael if they both do their best at a given competition.

I guess the one thing is that Rachael could get better if she continues skating. I'm thinking like a Joannie situation? Rachael and Joannie have similar styles of skating and Joannie didn't become a real international force until recently. Something I wonder about. Good luck to her in whatever she decides!

Oh and for the record, Rachael is not fat. On yahoo it says she is 157 cm and 110 pounds and Mirai is 160 cm and 110 pounds so honestly she and Mirai are basically the same size, they weigh the exact same and Mirai is only an inch taller, and I don't think anyone thinks Mirai is heavy.

oleada
03-28-2010, 09:15 PM
Christina is good and all, but comparing her with Lepisto is very premature at this point. She doesn't have Lepisto's basics, spins or posture. She also hasn't shown she's able to handle really complex choreography. Which is fine, as she's 16.

Laura doesn't get her scores because she's flexible, long limbed and skinny, that's ridiculous. :rolleyes:

pinky166
03-28-2010, 09:16 PM
Christina is good and all, but comparing her with Lepisto is very premature at this point. She doesn't have Lepisto's basics, spins or posture. She also hasn't shown she's able to handle really complex choreography. Which is fine, as she's 16.

Laura doesn't get her scores because she's flexible, long limbed and skinny, that's ridiculous. :rolleyes:

Sometimes I wonder....

Maximillian
03-28-2010, 09:28 PM
I tend to doubt that a type A personality like Flatt is actually out of shape, rather, that is just what her body looks like. I would expect that an achiever like Flatt would not have left anything to chance this season, including fitness, and probably worked just as hard on that as she did on everything else.

judgejudy27
03-28-2010, 09:35 PM
I think international judges liked Angela's skating a proper amount in 2001 and after. Sure there were judges who gave her crappy marks/ordinals for that great SP at Worlds but the fact is enough had her high enough to be 3rd, which is good. That was a real breakthrough for her internationally, much as Mirai's 1st in the SP was. If her skating continued to be at that level, she'd have picked up a Worlds medal or two and made the OLY team....but the USFS judges didn't really give her the benefit of the doubt after all the tragedies and problems....she might have made the 2002 OLY team with a flawless skate but its hard to say since she bombed...and was basically never the same after that. :(

The only time Angela was truly hard-done by judging was 2001 Nationals and that was just a case of Nationals judges not trusting Angela after years of mediocre results vs. the very dependable rising star Sarah. Sarah didn't exactly bomb that year anyway- so it was a close call for them (not for me cause Angela was so diviiiiine)

I dont remember the ordinals from the 2001 Worlds SP beyond the range but I dont believe many of the judges had her 3rd. She basically ended up there since the judges couldnt decide who should be 3rd. With that wonderful performance no judge should have had her lower than say 4th, and she could have even had some votes higher than 3rd (didnt Kwan have a slightly two footed combo?) and had none. As I said I dont think she would have still been put in 3rd if Maria was in the last flight, although I was pleasently surprised they put her over Hughes.

I understand what you are saying basically but Cohen bombed all her pre National events in 01-02 as well, and she had virtually no international rep at that point (at Goodwill Games she actually skated well and was a distant 4th behind Slutskaya, Kwan, and Suguri). Yet even she was favored over Nikidinov at Nationals based on the SP scoring, as was Hughes who yes had done more to garner the USFSA's faith but is still the weaker skater.

I see what you are saying in 2001 but it still annoyed me. Sarah's with a botched triple-triple try (that year she landed underrotated on two foot) is completely mediocre IMO. I was so much hoping for Angela to get her revenge on Sarah at the 2001 Worlds after setting herself up to do so in the LP. She only had to beat Sarah in the LP there to get the bronze and potentially knock Sarah to 5th like she was in 2000, she didnt even have to beat Maria who was actually 3rd in the LP.

euterpe
03-28-2010, 09:45 PM
Christina is good and all, but comparing her with Lepisto is very premature at this point. She doesn't have Lepisto's basics, spins or posture. She also hasn't shown she's able to handle really complex choreography. Which is fine, as she's 16.

Laura doesn't get her scores because she's flexible, long limbed and skinny, that's ridiculous.

Christina ALREADY has a better jump arsenal than Lepisto (all the triples except 3A), and as you say, she is only 16 to Laura's 22. The rest will come---so far, she's had international experience only at the junior level, and less than a year at that. Laura has seven full years of international competition: four at the junior level, and three at the senior level, including 3 Worlds and Europeans, and one Olympics. I think by the time Christina has had as much experience as Laura, she will be a far more accomplished skater than she is now.

OTOH, can Laura continue to place high with just a 50% success rate on 3Z, no 3F, and a recurring tendency to double her jumps in the second half of the program? I still believe she has inherited the Kostner factor (being the top European), and that keeps her in high esteem with the judges who are mostly European. But in a tough competition where the top skaters all perform well (close to or at their best), I'm not sure Laura can maintain a top 3 rating with her limited jumping skills.

IceKween
03-28-2010, 09:47 PM
Oh and for the record, Rachael is not fat. On yahoo it says she is 157 cm and 110 pounds and Mirai is 160 cm and 110 pounds so honestly she and Mirai are basically the same size, they weigh the exact same and Mirai is only an inch taller, and I don't think anyone thinks Mirai is heavy.

No one is saying Flatt is fat. She's just not toned. You see her in these small costumes, and you don't see the body of a world class athlete.

And Flatt is nowhere close to a Rochette. Rochette had that glide, that power, the strength of the edge that Flatt is nowhere close to matching. I've watched Rochette since probably early 2000's, and have just been waiting for it to happen for her because she was so strong. It was not surprising that she finally put it together because she was such a strong skater. Rachael Flatt? Neh. If she could figure out how to have more power in her Xovers and better glide we can talk. But right now everything is just laborious. If Flatt actually moved across the ice, her body type probably wouldn't be an issue. But she is so slow, so lumbered, and then you notice that her body is so untoned, well it just gives a very sober and laboring impression.

I'm surprised that there is only one inch and no poundage difference between Nagasu and Flatt. And I think that makes that point that it all comes down to BASICS. Clearly Nagasu has the basics. She flies across the ice and is light as a feather. Flatt is the exact opposite. Maybe a change of coach would help Flatt if she wants to stay in.

pinky166
03-28-2010, 09:50 PM
I tend to doubt that a type A personality like Flatt is actually out of shape, rather, that is just what her body looks like. I would expect that an achiever like Flatt would not have left anything to chance this season, including fitness, and probably worked just as hard on that as she did on everything else.

On ice diaries Tom Zacrycek said he demanded a higher level of fitness from his students than a lot of coaches. I am sure Rachael is in great shape and just is naturally built a little more sturdy. Her parents are both short and solid, and honestly 5'2" and 110 pounds is pretty tiny. I'm sure if we saw Rachael walking on the street she'd look pretty little. Skating has become dominated by Asians recently, and Asians tend to be naturally smaller and lighter than those of European descent. Then there are people like Joannie, who is actually the same height and weight as Rachael, but is just very, very muscular, but I've read in articles that she is just naturally like that. Apparently she doesn't lift weights and her body just builds muscle very easily. Everyone's different, but Rachael is clearly in great shape considering all those jumps she can continually rattle off.

euterpe
03-28-2010, 10:21 PM
Rachael has a stocky build, with short legs, and she is short-waisted. She is never going to look lithe and willowy like Kim or as slim as Nagasu. She is strong and healthy, and that is what matters.

pinky166
03-28-2010, 10:44 PM
Rachael has a stocky build, with short legs, and she is short-waisted. She is never going to look lithe and willowy like Kim or as slim as Nagasu. She is strong and healthy, and that is what matters.

True. Mirai's strong and healthy too though. I met her and was surprised at how muscular she was, obviously she has no fat on her but I would have thought she was a gymnast if I didn't know she was a figure skater.

euterpe
03-28-2010, 11:01 PM
True. Mirai's strong and healthy too though. I met her and was surprised at how muscular she was, obviously she has no fat on her but I would have thought she was a gymnast if I didn't know she was a figure skater.

I was by no means implying that Mirai wasn't strong and healthy, too, because of course she is. I just wish she had more self-confidence.