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JJH
03-28-2010, 07:23 AM
Flatt is 9 months older than Nagasu and more than a year younger than Wagner. For everyone who thinks that Flatt should quit at 17, do you think that Nagasu should quit next year? Should Wagner have quit last year? Davis and White attend the University of Michigan. Czisny competed while attending and graduating from college. If Rachel wants to continue to skate, I'm certain she's plenty smart enough to figure out how to do it.

Stephanie
03-28-2010, 11:52 AM
Is Agnes expected to skate senior next season? I thought she'd do a year on the JGP?

She's guaranteed one senior GP due to her medal at junior worlds (Gao is too due to her JGPF medal), so it's up to her and her coach.

judgejudy27
03-28-2010, 12:38 PM
Reading comments like the USFSA holding up Flatt anymore makes me laugh. Flatt was robbed of the 2009 National title and she is supposably held up, LOL! Yeah Nagasu got some unfortunate < in the free skate at Nationals, what else is new, every event other than the Olympics this year that has happened to her, so it is not like they went out of their way to pick on her. Nagasu clearly has more potential and that was shown at the Major events this year, but Flatt deserves more than the scathing remarks and over the top criticsm she often seems to get from people. If she does move on to college, she can be proud of her career as a skater. She has been the U.S's most consistent skater for almost 3 years now, performed wonderfully at an Olympics and a couple times at a Worlds (especialy last year), won a well deserved National title and World Junior Gold, and been a class act through it all. If she continues on I think those who are writing her off now will be in for a surprise. I doubt she will overtake Nagasu as the top American again, but she can definitely continue to be a solid skater and improve further, and stay in the mix to represent the U.S at global events.

GarrAarghHrumph
03-28-2010, 12:51 PM
Isn't it possible in the US to get an "individual schedule" of sorts so that you take less classes and spread them out over more years for example, so that you can still train and compete?

Depends on the university. Some will let you attend part-time, others will not. Some will let you go part-time only if you've applied and been accepted into their less-prestigious "continuing education" (adult ed-style) programs, rather than into their main undergraduate colleges.

It's also the case that not all unis will let you defer for a year.

haribobo
03-28-2010, 02:17 PM
Angela Nikodinov... had one of the biggest transformations I have ever seen. Voila, the judges and the fans loved her! She turned out to be one of the most gorgeous skaters and remains one of my all time favorites.

The big difference is that Angela already had the great basic skating when she was with Oppegard. All that was needed with her was a fix in costuming, choreography, and fitness, and she was golden (unfortunately, that was all ruined by subsequent tragedies).

Rachael could have the world's best choreo and costuming and land all her jumps, but her speed and overall effect still pales miserably in comparison to Lepisto, Kostner, Mao, Yuna, Mirai, Makarova, etc....it seems to me that skaters are kind of stuck at their basic level of skills.....otherwise Rachael and Caroline Zhang would have improved them by now....

The reason Rachael and Caroline couldn't overtake Alissa at 2009 Nationals is exactly this. Even with all their jumps landed, they were slow and totally unimpressive. Rachael improved her programs this year enough to win Nationals, but someone like Agnes Z or Ashley Wagner could match that level, and the judges at Nationals will be eager for that to happen since Rachael is now 9th in the World and not 5th. Lepisto, Kostner, Nagasu, Phaneuf, and Makarova are just the tip of the iceberg of skaters that have passed Rachael since last year's Worlds (Kostner and Phaneuf have consistency issues, yes. As do Lepisto and Nagasu but their skills are so good they can seem to get away with 3-triple programs and still beat a Rachael) when Murakami, Shelepen, Agafanova, Ovcharova, Zawadzki....come on to the scene, then it will really be tough to even stay in top 10 at Worlds with mediocre skating skills....

The GP next season should be very interesting and I look forward to some new faces from US and abroad!

Rachael of course can do whatever she wants and she'll probably be good enough to make Nationals podiums for a few more years if she stays...but I honestly see her going the way of Bebe, Emily, Kimmie, and Alissa...a Kwan or Cohen-like career is not in the cards for her.

judgejudy27
03-28-2010, 02:21 PM
As much as I liked Angela's skating (I even liked it before the transformation but loved it after), I dont think the judges ever really liked it that much. She came 3rd in the SP at the 2001 Worlds but with ordinals ranging from 3rd to 8th. She lucked out Butyrskaya had bombed the qualifying and was skating in the earlier flight as I am pretty sure the judges would have put her 3rd or even 2nd in the short with the same performance if she were (as it was Maria's ordinals ranged from 2nd to 7th but she ended up 5th). Still it was nice to see the judges place her over a clean Hughes for once, the only time they ever did that. Too bad she missed the last minute of her otherwise gorgeous free skate and handed Hughes one of her many lucky medals.

2001 Nationals before that of course she totally outskated Hughes and yet had to settle for 3rd place.

2002 Nationals she skated a beautiful short program and was placed below Hughes and Cohen. She probably would have missed the Olympic team even with a clean free skate.

mishieru07
03-28-2010, 02:42 PM
Davis and White attend the University of Michigan. Czisny competed while attending and graduating from college. If Rachel wants to continue to skate, I'm certain she's plenty smart enough to figure out how to do it.

It depends on her major. Since she wants to be a pre-med, I don't see how that works out because they spend an awful amount of time in the lab, which cannot be compensated for by correspondence learning. D/W and Czisny are Arts majors IIRC, and even then D/W took a whole semester off to train for Olympics and Worlds I think. They have a lighter course load than a regular student.

Didn't Emily Hughes try to balance Harvard and skating? It didn't quite work out. Also, are there any good coaches near the university (whichever she chooses?)

haribobo
03-28-2010, 05:26 PM
As much as I liked Angela's skating (I even liked it before the transformation but loved it after), I dont think the judges ever really liked it that much. She came 3rd in the SP at the 2001 Worlds but with ordinals ranging from 3rd to 8th.

She probably would have missed the Olympic team even with a clean free skate.

I think international judges liked Angela's skating a proper amount in 2001 and after. Sure there were judges who gave her crappy marks/ordinals for that great SP at Worlds but the fact is enough had her high enough to be 3rd, which is good. That was a real breakthrough for her internationally, much as Mirai's 1st in the SP was. If her skating continued to be at that level, she'd have picked up a Worlds medal or two and made the OLY team....but the USFS judges didn't really give her the benefit of the doubt after all the tragedies and problems....she might have made the 2002 OLY team with a flawless skate but its hard to say since she bombed...and was basically never the same after that. :(

The only time Angela was truly hard-done by judging was 2001 Nationals and that was just a case of Nationals judges not trusting Angela after years of mediocre results vs. the very dependable rising star Sarah. Sarah didn't exactly bomb that year anyway- so it was a close call for them (not for me cause Angela was so diviiiiine)

Jaana
03-28-2010, 05:58 PM
I disagree with that. She isn't as good as Mirai, but she's arguably the second best US lady. I know everyone gets sick of hearing about her consistency, but it is a huge competitive advantage. She's also only seventeen, so she does still have some time to grow as a skater. I think it's too early to write her off.

I think that it would be better for her to concentrate on her studies and feel happy about what she has accomplished in her skating. Yes, she is a consinstent skater, but unfortunately she does not have the look and even less the bodytype.

euterpe
03-28-2010, 06:02 PM
Rachael's juggled school and skating for the past 4 years, and I believe when she starts college, she knows she won't be able to do that without slacking off in the skating department---much like Emily Hughes.

So if she decides to defer college for one year, it will be with an eye to seeing how much she can improve her skating if she gives it 100% of her attention. After all, Paul Wylie never succeeded internationally until the year AFTER he graduated from Harvard.

I think Rachael's skating suffered a bit this season due to the fact this was her Senior year in high school, with all the social and academic events that go with that. She peaked at Nationals and never quite made it back to that level at Olympics and Worlds.

I'd be interested to see how she does with concentrating on skating for a year. If that's what she chooses to do. I know she will be successful in her college career for sure.

Jot the Dot Dot
03-28-2010, 06:05 PM
I like Rachael, as a skater and as a person. Give her the chance to grow and improve. And this is the first time I ever heard of her as being fat :confused::confused::confused: Nuts, if you ask me.

UGG
03-28-2010, 06:10 PM
I don't get why people are saying Rachel should forget about skating based on the up and coming talent. As we have seen the last four years, it is very difficult to predict the future. In 2008 wern't the current crop of up and coming girls supposed to be so good that we would earn 3 spots back once they started competing at the sr. level? Remember all the flack Kimmie and Bebe got for placing 7th and 10th at 2008 worlds? Wasn't Caroline Zhang supposed to be the next Michelle Kwan? LOL.

As of right now Rachel is the #2 US lady and she should not quit skating because someone may or may not surpass her. I do agree that a Kwan/Cohen career is not in her future though but who knows. Stranger things have happened in skating...

Vash01
03-28-2010, 07:15 PM
It depends on her major. Since she wants to be a pre-med, I don't see how that works out because they spend an awful amount of time in the lab, which cannot be compensated for by correspondence learning. D/W and Czisny are Arts majors IIRC, and even then D/W took a whole semester off to train for Olympics and Worlds I think. They have a lighter course load than a regular student.

Didn't Emily Hughes try to balance Harvard and skating? It didn't quite work out. Also, are there any good coaches near the university (whichever she chooses?)


IIRC Debie Thomas was a pre-med at Stanford when she was competing at world level (I think she transferred to Colorado later). Wylie did compete at the senior national level while studying at Harvard, but after he graduated, his skating improved significantly.

Some really smart people are able to handle a lot more than mortals like me are. I give Rachael the benefit of doubt and say that she will be able to do it, unless the school is too rigid to allow it.

ibreakhearts66
03-28-2010, 07:42 PM
With a well designed schedule, I think it is entirely possible for Rachael to balance skating and college. She could have classes start in the late morning and train early morning, then have the night to study and complete homework. It would probably be a very dull and monotone schedule, but would probably not be all that much different than what she's used to with high school. If she's taking any lab classes, however, the school would need to be flexible with her traveling for competition. Labs can take quite a bit of time and require supervision, so someone would have to make themselves, the lab and equipment available to her.

At the same time, I don't think there's any reason for her to rush into skating. I was a Rachael Flatt type high school student--9 APs, honors, sports (not elite figure skating, obviously, but elite soccer and competitive figure skating). I was just burnt out after high school and took a year off. BEST thing I could have done for my academics. Of course, Rachael may not feel burnt out at all, but I think taking a year off can do wonderful things.

tarotx
03-28-2010, 07:43 PM
Rachael can improve so much just but doing more ice work outs to improve her fitness and an improved fitness level might improve her speed. It helps in other sports. she can also take some figures lessons and edge and stocking lessons. Sasha did and she improve her speed and edges. She needs to work on her flexibility and stretch.

Rachael can speed time presenting her self better by keeping her chin up and shoulders aligned so that she doesn't look like she has no chin. She can watch Courtney McCool do gymnastics and realize that her body type and her inherited short neck isn't what is keeping her carriage and presentation low. She needs to choose better costumes. She needs to chose music that she can draw an audience into. She has musicality but because she doesn't have the fast spins and wow flexibility she needs her music to really inspire her and the audience.

I don't see what giving it one more year to see where she can take her skating can hurt. School will be there in a year for a smartie like Rachael.