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View Full Version : What does Caroline Zhang need to do to work her way back up to the podium?



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Coco
06-05-2010, 02:09 PM
I thought a skater only had to wait 12 months, not 24, to represent a new country?

Because the new pair of Trankov and the ukrainian woman who's name I can't spell is going to be good to go for Russia at 2011 worlds despite her competing in Vancouver.

lilia&mofan
06-05-2010, 02:21 PM
deleted

Polymer Bob
06-05-2010, 03:13 PM
Do not open the above link. You will get a virus. :eek:

key65man
06-05-2010, 03:13 PM
I thought a skater only had to wait 12 months, not 24, to represent a new country?

Because the new pair of Trankov and the ukrainian woman who's name I can't spell is going to be good to go for Russia at 2011 worlds despite her competing in Vancouver.

They seem to have a different rule for pairs and dance. For them, the waiting period is one year for international competitions and ISU championships if one is to represent a nation of which the other of the team is a citizen.

http://www.skatecanada.ca/en/athletes/ISU_Rule_109.pdf

key65man
06-05-2010, 03:26 PM
Sylvia brings up a great point though: U.S. Figure Skating could choose not to release her due to the success she's had representing the U.S. (especially after her 4CC bronze this season).

I think the procedure would be more or less a formality. After all, the U.S. stands upon pursuit of happiness and individual freedom within the boundary of laws and rules. I also think there is little moral implication about this scenario. Caroline, however, needs to meet a residency requirement (e.g., living one year in China) without having to change her citizenship if she so desires.

However, you are right that it is no more than an off-season talk. Just a theoretical possibility at best.

lilia&mofan
06-05-2010, 04:00 PM
Do not open the above link. You will get a virus. :eek:

Sorry, I didn't mean to do that. I just deleted my prior post.

Since I'm so computer illiterate, can someone please tell me how I would know if a link I post contains any viruses? I don't want fsuers to think that I would deliberately infect their computers with viruses.

I am truly sorry for anyone whose computer was infected with a virus due to a link I posted. From now on, I will be more careful about posting links.

chipso1
06-05-2010, 05:22 PM
I think the procedure would be more or less a formality.

Not really. Often times, skating federations will keep the skaters "on hold" for a season or more (i.e., the process isn't automatic). This is what happened with Morgan Matthews when she wanted to skate with Leif Gislason (and Morgan had a fairly similar resume to Caroline: Jr World champ, National medalist, 4CC medalist).


After first considering competing for Canada, and even taking out a skating club membership in Gislason's home town of Winnipeg, the couple explored the possibility of becoming citizens of Azerbaijan to compete for that country when Matthews could not secure her release from U.S. Figure Skating to compete internationally for Canada until the 2009-10 season.

When the unorthodox Azerbaijani plan fizzled due to the time that the couple would have to spend training there to qualify for citizenship, Matthews and Gislason decided to look no farther than their own backyard and settled on competing for the United States.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081010&content_id=52843&vkey=ice_news

key65man
06-05-2010, 07:28 PM
Not really. Often times, skating federations will keep the skaters "on hold" for a season or more (i.e., the process isn't automatic). This is what happened with Morgan Matthews when she wanted to skate with Leif Gislason (and Morgan had a fairly similar resume to Caroline: Jr World champ, National medalist, 4CC medalist).



http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081010&content_id=52843&vkey=ice_news

Thanks for pointing it out. There are more details about representing different countries than I realized.

The USFSA's decision not to release Morgan until 2009-2010 (for two seasons I presume) was solely based on "the investment" made in the couple while representing the U.S. (I presume that had the unspecified amount of the investment been recoup'ed, the release could have been granted.)

The precedent, as you point out, does suggest that Caroline may not skate in international competitions as well as ISU championships for two seasons if she wants to represent a country other than the U.S.

According to the rule 109, the permit or the release from the original country is not required when a skater has the citizenship of the "new" country or when the skater has lived in the "new" country longer than a year and has already applied for the citizenship.

Therefore, Caroline can meet the residence requirement having applied for the citizenship and then skate in international competitions in a season and in ISU championships in two seasons. Or, Caroline may not skate internationally representing another country for two seasons because the USFSA can hold the release for two seasons. I have gathered that much so far.

Do you know any other exception not granting a release for two seasons or longer?

Thanks for the info.

pinky166
06-06-2010, 05:15 AM
Any discussion if when Caroline started faltering must involve hindsight. Did she start backsliding at '07 Junior Nationals when she finished 2nd to Mirai, or a month later when she beat Mirai at Junior Worlds?

Was she backsliding that fall when she made the senior Grand Prix Final? Was she backsliding in January of last year when she beat our Worlds team at 4CC? Or at the World Team Trophy when she placed ahead of Miki and Rachael, and sealed the American victory under great pressure?

The fact is, she has had good events, bad events, and mediocre events. But she really didn't collapse completely until last season.

Caroline has had awful technique and no speed since the very beginning. When she was 4'9" and 70 pounds, her jumps were higher because she was so tiny and the speed and weak basic skating were forgivable because she was so small and young and competing at junior competitions.

IMO, Caroline really started taking a step back in the 2008-2009 season, once her body changed and she had a 5'4" woman's body and not that of a 4'9" little girl. Once she became taller and heavier, her jumps were lower, her lack of speed more obvious and less excusable, her basic skating still weak despite being older and more mature. It's called puberty monster for a reason, and that's what Caroline's been dealing with these past two seasons. I know she won bronze at 2009 nationals, but no one else skated that well what with Mirai struggling, Ashley bombing the short, a lot of young promising skaters still in juniors, etc; I mean, Caroline didn't even manage to beat Alissa in the FS at 09 nationals despite landing 7 triple jumps (6 ratified) compared to Alissa's 3.

Polymer Bob
06-07-2010, 01:50 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is a lot that is correct here. I would say that for Caroline to have a chance at high level podiums ( podia?, podii? ) she needs to do little things right. If a lutz takes off on an outside edge, she needs to take off on the outside edge. If she is slow she needs to skate faster. If she gained weight, she needs to hit the gym and get stronger.

Her spins are the best in the world, and her spirals are among the best. She needs to maintain her strengths and improve her weaknesses.

sk9tingfan
06-07-2010, 02:03 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Her spins are the best in the world, and her spirals are among the best. She needs to maintain her strengths and improve her weaknesses.

While I agree with all of your points, I think Mirai may have eclipsed Caroline even in these two categories. Given her back injury this past season, it will be interesting to see how far she pushes her flexibility. IMO,she also needs some more fiery, dramatic music for her programs.

Autumn_girl
06-07-2010, 02:09 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There is a lot that is correct here. I would say that for Caroline to have a chance at high level podiums ( podia?, podii? ) she needs to do little things right. If a lutz takes off on an outside edge, she needs to take off on the outside edge. If she is slow she needs to skate faster. If she gained weight, she needs to hit the gym and get stronger.

Her spins are the best in the world, and her spirals are among the best. She needs to maintain her strengths and improve her weaknesses.

It's a lot of work. And it's not only lutz she needs to fix. Her every jump is painful to watch, really. It could take years of hard work and inconsistency! Her basics skills are weak also. It's not that simple to skate faster, it's a lot of work too. And her spirals are not 'among the best'. Her positions are among the best, but it's not enough. Yuna's and Carolina Costner's spirals are much better, because they have speed and good edges.
I like Caroline, really, and I wish her all the best. But she has too many problems, it's impossible to fix them all in 4-6 months. Maybe few years later she will be able to make the team at Nationals and then will have a chance 'at high level podiums'. But not now

dupagegal
06-07-2010, 02:26 PM
Start at Ground Zero.....go back and learn all her jumps over again to get rid of the awful looking mule kick.

pinky166
06-07-2010, 04:35 PM
Start at Ground Zero.....go back and learn all her jumps over again to get rid of the awful looking mule kick.

Frank said Mirai had to basically start from scratch to relearn her jumps after her body changed so much, and it really worked for Mirai, her jumps are so solid now, she rarely flutzes, and she has become much smoother and more consistent. I think it would be smart for Caroline to take a similar approach. Mirai had a very rough season in 08-09, but she switched coaches, buckled down, dealt with her issues and came back very strong.

I know it must be frustrating for Caroline because she was so good at a young age, but unfortunately this is just life, in most every sport once a girl's body matures things become harder. Caroline still has some very promising aspects to her skating though, she just really needs to address her weaknesses and accept that if she really wants to change and get better she has to accept that she may not do so well for awhile. I think a new coach would be a smart step.

orbitz
06-07-2010, 05:16 PM
Frank said Mirai had to basically start from scratch to relearn her jumps after her body changed so much, and it really worked for Mirai, her jumps are so solid now, she rarely flutzes, and she has become much smoother and more consistent. I think it would be smart for Caroline to take a similar approach. Mirai had a very rough season in 08-09, but she switched coaches, buckled down, dealt with her issues and came back very strong.


I thought Mirai had good techniques back when she won Nationals under Charline Wong. She might have had slight flutz and underrotation issues back then but the basics of her jumps had always looked good. So starting "from scratch" for Mirai was not the same as if Caroline was to start from scratch now. Caroline needs a complete overhaul and that's really tough at this stage of her career.