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View Full Version : What does Caroline Zhang need to do to work her way back up to the podium?



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chipso1
06-04-2010, 06:34 AM
Sylvia brings up a great point though: U.S. Figure Skating could choose not to release her due to the success she's had representing the U.S. (especially after her 4CC bronze this season).

jlai
06-04-2010, 02:40 PM
The lack of skating popularity in China could be an incentive TO switch. She could be very influential and change the course of figure skating in China.

Somehow I doubt it. It takes someone who knows the system to do that.

Besides, look at what happened to Soldatova.

pinky166
06-04-2010, 05:54 PM
Somehow I doubt it. It takes someone who knows the system to do that.

Besides, look at what happened to Soldatova.

Who's Soldatova?

It seems like a lot of skaters who switch representation have greater success, both Kate Charbonneau and Ksenia Makarova used to represent the US and didn't have great results (Kate never made it to nationals) , and now Ksenia is the Russian Champion and last year Kate was the Canadian Junior Champion.

Sylvia
06-04-2010, 05:57 PM
Who's Soldatova?
Google is your friend ;): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Soldatova


It seems like a lot of skaters who switch representation have greater success,
IMO, Makarova and Charbonneau are the exceptions, not the rule.

ETA: I've observed in recent years that many of the U.S. skaters that have switched countries usually are not among the really competitive skaters (their chances of making US Nationals at the Novice-Senior levels are not high), but they switch because they want to have the opportunity to compete internationally... even if it's just one JGP before they head off to college.

pinky166
06-04-2010, 08:33 PM
Google is your friend ;): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Soldatova


IMO, Makarova and Charbonneau are the exceptions, not the rule.

ETA: I've observed in recent years that many of the U.S. skaters that have switched countries usually are not among the really competitive skaters (their chances of making US Nationals at the Novice-Senior levels are not high), but they switch because they want to have the opportunity to compete internationally... even if it's just one JGP before they head off to college.

True, but with the poor results Caroline's had this season, she may be headed in that direction. I know, I know, she won bronze at 4CC, but that field was extremely weak, and her scores there were nearly matched by the likes of Dobbs, Imai, and Kwak...

RD
06-04-2010, 08:50 PM
True, but with the poor results Caroline's had this season, she may be headed in that direction. I know, I know, she won bronze at 4CC, but that field was extremely weak, and her scores there were nearly matched by the likes of Dobbs, Imai, and Kwak...

I'm gonna pull a PB here ( ;) ) and state that it is probably too early to completely write her off at this point. Yes, she took a big step back this season, but I feel we might need another season to know for sure where she's headed and this season was not just a fluke. I personally think she's a bit far gone at this point judging how the other skaters improved, but stranger things have happened.

MOIJTO
06-04-2010, 08:55 PM
I'm gonna pull a PB here ( ;) ) and state that it is probably too early to completely write her off at this point. Yes, she took a big step back this season, but I feel we might need another season to know for sure where she's headed and this season was not just a fluke. I personally think she's a bit far gone at this point judging how the other skaters improved, but stranger things have happened.

She has been taking a step back since her first year in Jr's and Mirai took that Jr championship right off her blades!

She is young and given that fact, anything can happen! But I think there is more personal garbage going on here and that's the real issue.

(I cannot believe I commented on this thread again, guess I am just chatty today)

jlai
06-04-2010, 10:17 PM
True, but with the poor results Caroline's had this season, she may be headed in that direction. I know, I know, she won bronze at 4CC, but that field was extremely weak, and her scores there were nearly matched by the likes of Dobbs, Imai, and Kwak...

Off the top of my head, those who switched and did worse:
Soldatova
Trifun Zivanovic
Daria Timoshenko
Sydne Vogel
Christine Lee
Joelle Forte and Fedor (We all know their troubles)
and the numerous others who switched to compete, like at a jgp like Sylvia said

Polymer Bob
06-04-2010, 11:29 PM
She has been taking a step back since her first year in Jr's and Mirai took that Jr championship right off her blades!


Any discussion if when Caroline started faltering must involve hindsight. Did she start backsliding at '07 Junior Nationals when she finished 2nd to Mirai, or a month later when she beat Mirai at Junior Worlds?

Was she backsliding that fall when she made the senior Grand Prix Final? Was she backsliding in January of last year when she beat our Worlds team at 4CC? Or at the World Team Trophy when she placed ahead of Miki and Rachael, and sealed the American victory under great pressure?

The fact is, she has had good events, bad events, and mediocre events. But she really didn't collapse completely until last season.

RD
06-05-2010, 12:13 AM
Any discussion if when Caroline started faltering must involve hindsight. Did she start backsliding at '07 Junior Nationals when she finished 2nd to Mirai, or a month later when she beat Mirai at Junior Worlds?

Was she backsliding that fall when she made the senior Grand Prix Final? Was she backsliding in January of last year when she beat our Worlds team at 4CC? Or at the World Team Trophy when she placed ahead of Miki and Rachael, and sealed the American victory under great pressure?

The fact is, she has had good events, bad events, and mediocre events. But she really didn't collapse completely until last season.

I notice Zhang typically does her worst (or near it) at Nationals. She does better internationally, but especially with only two World Team spots, there really is little to no room for error at Nationals, and as long as she keeps performing mediocre routines at Nats, she won't get anywhere. Of course, she can keep doing GP events and keep competing at 4CCs where there is less pressure, but she's never going to get to Worlds at this point.

chipso1
06-05-2010, 12:36 AM
I know I've contributed, but I think this thread is proof that the off-season can't be over soon enough! :shuffle:

RD
06-05-2010, 12:42 AM
I know I've contributed, but I think this thread is proof that the off-season can't be over soon enough! :shuffle:

Yeah- the funny thing though is that this thread was around well BEFORE the offseason...:eek:

Polymer Bob
06-05-2010, 04:51 AM
I notice Zhang typically does her worst (or near it) at Nationals. She does better internationally, but especially with only two World Team spots, there really is little to no room for error at Nationals, and as long as she keeps performing mediocre routines at Nats, she won't get anywhere. Of course, she can keep doing GP events and keep competing at 4CCs where there is less pressure, but she's never going to get to Worlds at this point.

Well this raises another thorny issue. Her 2008 National short was not inspired, but would have gotten her in the final group had the judges not overlooked one of her elements. Had she then blasted the roof off with her free skate in the final group, rather than the penultimate, would she have placed higher than 4th? I think so.

Then last year. Well, .... had the judges not decided a real lady should win, Caroline would have been a close 2nd to Rachael. ( And between you and me, nobody would have been shocked if she won. )

RD
06-05-2010, 05:10 AM
Then last year. Well, .... had the judges not decided a real lady should win, Caroline would have been a close 2nd to Rachael. ( And between you and me, nobody would have been shocked if she won. )

By "she" I assume you're referring to Rachel??

Personally I would have had Flatt-Czisny-Zhang, although I wouldn't have objected to Flatt-Zhang-Czisny.

Czisny-Flatt-Zhang (the actual result) was, I guess, OK but I thought at least the margin of victory by Alyssa should have been like a point or less. But IMHO Zhang did not deserve the title by a longshot.

Polymer Bob
06-05-2010, 01:17 PM
I have seen these opinions before, and they all make sense. But letís see where they lead.



Czisny-Flatt-Zhang (the actual result) was, I guess, OK


This means that Alissa MIGHT HAVE skated better than Rachael. It doesnít mean she did, just that she MIGHT HAVE.



I wouldn't have objected to Flatt-Zhang-Czisny.


This means that Caroline MIGHT HAVE skated better than Alissa. So, if Caroline might have skated better than Alissa; and Alissa might have skated better than Rachael, it implies that Caroline might have won. QED :D