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View Full Version : What does Caroline Zhang need to do to work her way back up to the podium?



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elif
05-05-2010, 07:59 AM
Gao had a BAD COMPETITION at junior worlds, why can't people just accept that? Yu Na Kim had a bad competition at SA and no one thought she was suddenly bad did they? Nope. Christina beat Ksenia Makarova at the JGPF where both skaters had two solid programs, so going off that, Gao could have placed 9th at the Olympics and 7th at Worlds, hypothetically.

Makarova had a bad competition to. her jgpf score 91.91. (At the Olympics her score 112 and worlds 107) . Gao's coach is Brian Orser and people think she will be next Yu-Na. every time i read good thing about her there is this sentence. Gao is ........................... and Brian Orser is her coach. :confused:

sorry for my english. ;)

pinky166
05-05-2010, 02:29 PM
Kiri has been working on the Lutz and flip for only a year...let's give her time to work out the kinks, eh? Her flip was exceptional in her Jr. Worlds free skate.

Eight months ago no one outside of the U.S. even knew who Kiri Baga was. Her progress in that short amount of time (2 JGP golds, JGPF appearance and a solid FS at her first Jr. Worlds) is really quite remarkable when you think about it.



Give me a break. :rolleyes: Having seen her skate in person, Agnes is anything but an "amazon."

Have you seen her skate recently? Compared to all these other skaters she looks very tall indeed.

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/images/nationals/us%202010%20JLA%201007.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbCSHij1reo&feature=related

pinky166
05-05-2010, 02:35 PM
Makarova had a bad competition to. her jgpf score 91.91. (At the Olympics her score 112 and worlds 107) . Gao's coach is Brian Orser and people think she will be next Yu-Na. every time i read good thing about her there is this sentence. Gao is ........................... and Brian Orser is her coach. :confused:

sorry for my english. ;)

Junior vs senior level scores are different. Her 91.91 at the JGPF was a season's best at that point, and her FS was nearly clean. In any event, Gao is awesome and will prove it soon enough. NBC commentators were practically drooling over her at nationals, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbCSHij1reo&feature=related , her 3-3 and 3flip are PERFECT, I'd like to see Flatt or Nagasu do a 3-3 or 3flip that nice. Plus, sloppiness is not a deal breaker, Rachael Flatt is the queen of sloppy and still does very well for herself. Christina has also just had a growthspurt so a lot of the sloppiness will likely go away once she gets adjusted. Gao is going places.

pinky166
05-05-2010, 02:40 PM
Kiri has been working on the Lutz and flip for only a year...let's give her time to work out the kinks, eh? Her flip was exceptional in her Jr. Worlds free skate.

Eight months ago no one outside of the U.S. even knew who Kiri Baga was. Her progress in that short amount of time (2 JGP golds, JGPF appearance and a solid FS at her first Jr. Worlds) is really quite remarkable when you think about it.


She also scored barely over 70 for her FS twice, and one of those times was at nationals where scores are usually inflated. Also, in the events she won, she didn't win the FS. Plus people keep saying her FS at Jr Worlds was SO good and she scored 94, and most of that was due to high PCS, so if 94 is so good for Kiri and bad for Christina doesn't it show people that Christina is the better skater? She matched Kiri's FS score with lower PCS and a number of mistakes, and that was Kiri's best FS of the season. Gao was 3rd at the JGPF and 5th at senior nationals, Kiri was 7th at the JGPF and 4th (barely) at JUNIOR nationals, and at junior worlds they had essentially the same score. Clearly Christina is heavy edge to Kiri at this point.

judgejudy27
05-05-2010, 02:57 PM
Junior international judges give Baga higher PCS than Gao even when her TES are lower, despite that she is younger. Zawadski also gets higher PCS and she is clearly a better jumper. Anyway if Nagasu continues on her current path she will be the top U.S skater for awhile I predict.

chipso1
05-05-2010, 05:18 PM
Have you seen her skate recently? Compared to all these other skaters she looks very tall indeed.

http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/images/nationals/us%202010%20JLA%201007.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbCSHij1reo&feature=related

Yes, that picture is from Nationals, where I saw her skate.


She also scored barely over 70 for her FS twice, and one of those times was at nationals where scores are usually inflated. Also, in the events she won, she didn't win the FS. Plus people keep saying her FS at Jr Worlds was SO good and she scored 94, and most of that was due to high PCS, so if 94 is so good for Kiri and bad for Christina doesn't it show people that Christina is the better skater? She matched Kiri's FS score with lower PCS and a number of mistakes, and that was Kiri's best FS of the season. Gao was 3rd at the JGPF and 5th at senior nationals, Kiri was 7th at the JGPF and 4th (barely) at JUNIOR nationals, and at junior worlds they had essentially the same score. Clearly Christina is heavy edge to Kiri at this point.

Christina's JW free skate was nearly perfect, except for an over rotated 3Loop, so I'm not sure why you're referring to it as "bad."

You're also missing my point about Baga. She was thrust onto the international scene this season (she didn't even receive an "initial" JGP assignment...she found out shortly before her first event). The fact that she's been able to do so well while attempting (and landing) new, more difficult triples says a lot about her work ethic. Like I said, the triples will come with time...let's let ALL of these young ladies develop their skating for a few years before we bring on the doom and gloom.

burntBREAD
05-05-2010, 06:47 PM
I thought this thread was about Caroline Zhang? It seems to get off topic every other page... :wall:

pinky166
05-05-2010, 08:20 PM
Yes, that picture is from Nationals, where I saw her skate.



Christina's JW free skate was nearly perfect, except for an over rotated 3Loop, so I'm not sure why you're referring to it as "bad."

You're also missing my point about Baga. She was thrust onto the international scene this season (she didn't even receive an "initial" JGP assignment...she found out shortly before her first event). The fact that she's been able to do so well while attempting (and landing) new, more difficult triples says a lot about her work ethic. Like I said, the triples will come with time...let's let ALL of these young ladies develop their skating for a few years before we bring on the doom and gloom.

Why does she look so much taller than all the other girls then? I heard Kiri is now 5'4" so if that's true Agnes is like 5'8" or 5'9" judging from that picture which qualifies as amazon in the skating world.

In her Jr World FS Christina didn't do her 3-3, left out the 3 jump combo, and had a messy 3lo, which cost her about 8 points overall, meaning she could have gotten 102 if she was clean, which would be very close to Kanako's score. She got almost 99 at the JGPF for a clean FS with no 3-3 and getting dinged for 2 flutzes instead of just one so 94 is really not the best Christina could do but for Kiri it was a huge surprise.

I'm not saying Kiri won't be a factor in the future but AT THIS POINT IN TIME, Gao is more promising than Baga IMO, but she is also a year older than Baga so we will have to see how Kiri is doing next year to more accurately compare. Kiri has a lot of great qualities but has a tendency to choke in the LP and struggles with flip, lutz, and 2a and sometimes even her sal looks scary - she has plenty of time to work on these things though. Gao is pretty consistent and has solid technique which will come in handy for competitions. I think Kiri is a better SKATER than Christina, but Christina is a better jumper and competitor, and in the long run that's likely to get her farther in the sport.

chipso1
05-05-2010, 08:51 PM
Why does she look so much taller than all the other girls then? I heard Kiri is now 5'4" so if that's true Agnes is like 5'8" or 5'9" judging from that picture which qualifies as amazon in the skating world.

I'm not sure where you heard that, but I would be surprised if Kiri is even 5' tall yet. Her mother is also quite short...probably 5'2" or 5'3", and Kiri is definitely still shorter than her.

pinky166
05-05-2010, 10:15 PM
I'm not sure where you heard that, but I would be surprised if Kiri is even 5' tall yet. Her mother is also quite short...probably 5'2" or 5'3", and Kiri is definitely still shorter than her.

I heard from someone that she had a 4 inch growth spurt this year, and on icenetwork she is listed as 5'0" and that listing went up last year, so I had assumed she was 5'4". Maybe Agnes isn't that tall then, I know Kanako and Polina are short, but Agnes is definitely tall for a figure skater.

Polymer Bob
05-06-2010, 09:47 PM
Mirai and Caroline both had growth spurts. I read somewhere they were having a contest to see who could grow more. :lol:

pinky166
05-06-2010, 09:56 PM
Mirai and Caroline both had growth spurts. I read somewhere they were having a contest to see who could grow more. :lol:

Caroline always used to be a couple inches taller than Mirai and now Mirai looks a bit taller than Caroline, which is probably part of the reason Mirai had more of a complete meltdown in 08-09 than Caroline did because her growthspurt was like 5 inches in a year instead of 3. To me Mirai appears much taller because her arms and legs are longer than Caroline's, but realistically they are probably both nearly done growing now. I think both girls are about 5'4" or maybe just slightly under, which is a good height for skating. Even if they grow another inch, they will still be a good height for skating, it seems like the ideal height range for a female singles skater is 5'2"-5'5", once you get taller than that the skaters seem to get really inconsistent on their jumps, and right now there are no top ladies above 5'7" (Kostner, Phanuef, Gilles, Hecken are all 5'7" or slightly under and are the tallest I know of)

AxelAnnie
05-07-2010, 02:00 AM
Let's just say (pretend) and sorry if this has been discussed- but what if Yu-Na hangs up her skates, and Caroline went to Brian Orser? Anybody see that as a silver bullet. I don't, but just kinda thinking.

Yazmeen
05-07-2010, 02:17 AM
Only if Brian sends Mama Zhang on an extended vacation...

(IIRC, Yu Na also had a "skater mom from hell" and was miserable until the move to Orser which got this eased out and resolved, and well, we know the marvelous outcome)

pinky166
05-07-2010, 02:34 AM
Let's just say (pretend) and sorry if this has been discussed- but what if Yu-Na hangs up her skates, and Caroline went to Brian Orser? Anybody see that as a silver bullet. I don't, but just kinda thinking.

I don't know if Orser would take her, he has a lot of students already.