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View Full Version : What does Caroline Zhang need to do to work her way back up to the podium?



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RD
05-04-2010, 06:43 PM
I wouldn't declare ANYONE the next "big star" right now. Yes, Mirai included...

miki88
05-04-2010, 07:27 PM
Mirai's problem is mostly mental. When she doesn't feel the pressure, she UR less. But when she does, she will UR a lot. In terms of her skating, she has what it takes to become the best, but if she doesn't develop mental strength in the future, then she could be another skater who has moments of greatness but falls to her nerves too often. Caroline's problems lies deeper in her technique which is harder to fix, but IF she could somehow fix them or improve them a lot, then she could become a force again. In fact, I always felt Caroline had a more mature presence on the ice than any of the US girls. I don't think the comparison to Kwan that was made in her early days was a wrong one.

smarts1
05-04-2010, 07:56 PM
Frank said he was going to work on Mirai's mental stability. Apparently at Worlds, this year before the free, Mirai told Frank she was very scared... But judging from what Frank does with his students, he should be able to reign in her nerves.

I just hope Mirai isn't peaking too early in her career...

pinky166
05-04-2010, 08:07 PM
I wouldn't declare ANYONE the next "big star" right now. Yes, Mirai included...

I would! GAO and NAGASU all the way :)

Not Flatt. not Wagner, not Zawadzki, def not Czisny or Zhang, and likely not Baga either.

Asian girls have come to dominate the sport and I think that will continue. The white girls just can't jump as well, I've noticed, or if they can jump really well, they get all stocky and muscular and their spins/spirals/components scores suffer. I'm sorry to be so blunt but I really think it's true.

judgejudy27
05-04-2010, 08:36 PM
Gao isnt that good. The last thing I see her being is a dominant skater, maybe a steady and consistent skater who will have a decent career but nothing more. Zawadzki is already better than her and is younger. Baga beat her at Junior Worlds without even skating that well.

hanca
05-04-2010, 08:55 PM
I would! GAO and NAGASU all the way :)

Not Flatt. not Wagner, not Zawadzki, def not Czisny or Zhang, and likely not Baga either.

Asian girls have come to dominate the sport and I think that will continue. The white girls just can't jump as well, I've noticed, or if they can jump really well, they get all stocky and muscular and their spins/spirals/components scores suffer. I'm sorry to be so blunt but I really think it's true.

Hmmm, that explains why Caroline Zhang is such a strong jumper. Why didn't I think of that!

chipso1
05-05-2010, 12:39 AM
Out of the three (Baga, Gao, Zawadzki), Gao is definitely in the "best hands" with Brian Orser. However, I don't think Baga and Zawadzki are just going to roll over and be non-factors.

Anyway, back to Zhang, does anyone know if she's recovered from her back injury last season?

pinky166
05-05-2010, 01:26 AM
Gao isnt that good. The last thing I see her being is a dominant skater, maybe a steady and consistent skater who will have a decent career but nothing more. Zawadzki is already better than her and is younger. Baga beat her at Junior Worlds without even skating that well.

She is that good. Kiri can only do a 3t and 3sal consistently and while that works in novice and sometimes in juniors, it won't get her anywhere on the senior level. In Finland she might have a future but in the US she won't unless she seriously starts working on the lutz, flip, and loop now.

Gao had a BAD COMPETITION at junior worlds, why can't people just accept that? Yu Na Kim had a bad competition at SA and no one thought she was suddenly bad did they? Nope. Christina beat Ksenia Makarova at the JGPF where both skaters had two solid programs, so going off that, Gao could have placed 9th at the Olympics and 7th at Worlds, hypothetically. Plus, Orser is her coach, she has shown tremendous improvement already, she has been gifted with great jump technique and the ability to consistently rotate her jumps, she has good speed, she has all the triples, and she has the ideal body type. Next season she'll likely do 3f-3t and I wouldn't be surprised if she started beating Rachael and Ashley and Caroline, who in the eyes of the international judges really aren't that good considering the scores they normally get.

My fear with Agnes is inconsistency. http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/images/nationals/us%202010%20JLA%200980.jpg I mean LOOK at how tall she is, her listed height is 167 cm (5'6") but she's likely grown since and will continue to grow considering she's only 15 and very gangly. Do you know of any 5'7"+ skaters who are consistently at the top of the sport? I don't. Kostner, Phanuef, and Gilles are good sometimes but their height reeks havoc on their jump consistency. With Agnes it is likely the same thing will happen, right now she is extremely thin so she can still jump consistently but once she fills out and becomes a tall statuesque skater she likely won't be so consistent. Plus she is really slow and isn't that unique.

Sylvia
05-05-2010, 01:49 AM
There's no need to be negative (doomsaying ;)) about young, still developing skaters in order to prop up or hype your favorites. Let them all develop at their own pace. Just my two cents.

RD
05-05-2010, 02:04 AM
IMO

The proof is in the pudding.

But the proof is also in the future.

IOW- TOO SOON to anoint Gao, Baga, or the other skater Agnes, whoever she is. I mean, I saw shades of potential in Gao at Nats, but she's got some way to go to get to that elite group of Americans. After all, she was pretty far behind a REALLY lackluster Cohen who had been away for four years prior...

I think it's sooner to pick between Wagner, Flatt and Nagasu who will carry the American torch, or whether the three of them (plus MAYBE Zhang and Czisny, depending on the weather) will continue to fight over it until someone eclipses them. My bet is on Nagasu and Wagner. I think Flatt will fade away and go to college, although that said, it remains to be seen what she wants to do with her year off, and whether she can make strides if she chooses to focus 100% on skating. I still had a little hope in Zhang after the GP but she really has hit rock bottom now. She could at least be in the hunt nationally if she can even get back to where she was in 2008. (Internationally, I think she's toast especially with the rule changes.) As for Czisny- well, I think you can fill in the blank there.

pinky166
05-05-2010, 02:45 AM
IMO

The proof is in the pudding.

But the proof is also in the future.

IOW- TOO SOON to anoint Gao, Baga, or the other skater Agnes, whoever she is. I mean, I saw shades of potential in Gao at Nats, but she's got some way to go to get to that elite group of Americans. After all, she was pretty far behind a REALLY lackluster Cohen who had been away for four years prior...

I think it's sooner to pick between Wagner, Flatt and Nagasu who will carry the American torch, or whether the three of them (plus MAYBE Zhang and Czisny, depending on the weather) will continue to fight over it until someone eclipses them. My bet is on Nagasu and Wagner. I think Flatt will fade away and go to college, although that said, it remains to be seen what she wants to do with her year off, and whether she can make strides if she chooses to focus 100% on skating. I still had a little hope in Zhang after the GP but she really has hit rock bottom now. She could at least be in the hunt nationally if she can even get back to where she was in 2008. (Internationally, I think she's toast especially with the rule changes.) As for Czisny- well, I think you can fill in the blank there.

I heard somewhere that Czisny is only likely to continue to skate competitively for one more season, so if she is a factor at all it will likely only be for one more season.

Wagner I think is great but she doesn't get great scores internationally - she gets dinged a lot for her flutz, flip, and double axel and then her PCS are pretty low.

I think Agnes could be the next Alexe Gilles - great on the junior ranks but then when she goes to seniors she'll be too tall to be able to perform well consistently. But we'll see, maybe she'll be the one tall lady that makes it consistently.

RockTheTassel
05-05-2010, 02:56 AM
IMO

The proof is in the pudding.

But the proof is also in the future.

IOW- TOO SOON to anoint Gao, Baga, or the other skater Agnes, whoever she is. I mean, I saw shades of potential in Gao at Nats, but she's got some way to go to get to that elite group of Americans. After all, she was pretty far behind a REALLY lackluster Cohen who had been away for four years prior...

I agree about it being too soon to declare Baga, Gao, and Zawadski at the top of the pack. They're still developing as skaters and have a long way to go. Yes, they all have potential, but I'm getting a little tired of people stating that they're going to be at the top in just a year or two like it's a fact. It's way too early to tell, and having all these expectations for them isn't a good thing. Look at Caroline Zhang, with people expecting her to make the 2010 Olympic podium and be the next Michelle Kwan. Not exactly close to what actually happened.

pinky166
05-05-2010, 03:31 AM
I agree about it being too soon to declare Baga, Gao, and Zawadski at the top of the pack. They're still developing as skaters and have a long way to go. Yes, they all have potential, but I'm getting a little tired of people stating that they're going to be at the top in just a year or two like it's a fact. It's way too early to tell, and having all these expectations for them isn't a good thing. Look at Caroline Zhang, with people expecting her to make the 2010 Olympic podium and be the next Michelle Kwan. Not exactly close to what actually happened.

Caroline also had awful technique from the very beginning and got hit quite hard by the puberty monster. It might be different for these girls, none of who have awful technique and as for puberty, too soon to tell, though Gao seems to be having a little trouble adjusting to her growthspurt and obviously Baga too, though she still looks quite short, Agnes is already an amazon.

chipso1
05-05-2010, 04:08 AM
She is that good. Kiri can only do a 3t and 3sal consistently and while that works in novice and sometimes in juniors, it won't get her anywhere on the senior level. In Finland she might have a future but in the US she won't unless she seriously starts working on the lutz, flip, and loop now.

Kiri has been working on the Lutz and flip for only a year...let's give her time to work out the kinks, eh? Her flip was exceptional in her Jr. Worlds free skate.

Eight months ago no one outside of the U.S. even knew who Kiri Baga was. Her progress in that short amount of time (2 JGP golds, JGPF appearance and a solid FS at her first Jr. Worlds) is really quite remarkable when you think about it.


Agnes is already an amazon.

Give me a break. :rolleyes: Having seen her skate in person, Agnes is anything but an "amazon."

Autumn_girl
05-05-2010, 07:43 AM
Kiri can only do a 3t and 3sal consistently and while that works in novice and sometimes in juniors, it won't get her anywhere on the senior level. In Finland she might have a future but in the US she won't unless she seriously starts working on the lutz, flip, and loop now.

I agree


Christina beat Ksenia Makarova at the JGPF where both skaters had two solid programs, so going off that, Gao could have placed 9th at the Olympics and 7th at Worlds, hypothetically.

No. It was Christina who had two solid programs, Ksenia only had solid SP (and she beat Gao in the SP), her FS wasn't clean. If it was, she would have beat Gao without a doubt. Her skating skills, spins, spirals are better, Gao is too sloppy now and has a lot of work



My fear with Agnes is inconsistency. http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/images/nationals/us%202010%20JLA%200980.jpg I mean LOOK at how tall she is, her listed height is 167 cm (5'6") but she's likely grown since and will continue to grow considering she's only 15 and very gangly. Do you know of any 5'7"+ skaters who are consistently at the top of the sport?

Again, Ksenia Makarova is the same height