Canada bidding for 2013 world championship

[Jenny]

Taxis are another option if you really don't want to walk or can't find parking nearby. Not expensive, especially if several are sharing the ride.

[snobben2345]

William Thompson’s post was interesting to read. He’s given a plausible explanation for how and why SC made its decision.

From my reading of his post, two factors seem to have tipped the balance in London’s direction: the expectation of a sellout and the “government support” that came with the London bid. I take that to mean taxpayer dollars at some level(s) are being used to underwrite /subsidize the costs that SC will incur in hosting the event. That $$S seems to have trumped any downsides to London’s bid.

But William’s post has sidestepped the practical issues that people are concerned about.

London only has about 3,300 hotel rooms. That’s a simple fact - right from the website of Tourism London.
http://www.londontourism.ca/Meeting-Planners/Why-London
[As a comparison, Calgary (venue of last Worlds held in Canada) has over 11,000 hotel rooms
http://www.meetingscalgary.com/index.php?page=accommodations-2]

How much of London’s limited hotel capacity will be needed for athletes/coaches/federations/ISU/SkateCanada/judges/media, etc at a pre-Olympic Worlds?

If they can be housed in 600 or so rooms, it may be OK. But what if they need, say, 1,500 rooms or more? Keep in mind that London has businesses and a major university that also draw hotel traffic. That will not stop just because a figure skating competition is coming to town. You don’t need a “medical convention”(major or otherwise). If normal business traffic keeps hotels only about 30% full (which seems low), that’s 1,100 rooms taken right there. And that traffic has to exist at some reasonable level, otherwise these properties couldn’t stay in business – they’re not empty all the time.

That doesn’t leave much hotel space for people coming from out of town to see Worlds. Whether you are travelling from Toronto or Tokyo, you’re going to need a place to stay.

Since a sellout of the event seems to be so important to SC, they should be concerned about this. A certain proportion of ticket sales is going to come from out-of-towners. Yes, they got a lot of local support for Nationals. But keep in mind that ticket prices for Nationals and Skate Canada Int’l are pretty modestly priced – around $200 for the whole event (and tickets for individual events priced proportionately). Not hard to see that casual fans might spend that kind of money to check out a local event, make it a family outing, etc.

But tickets for Worlds are priced at about 3 or 4 times that level (or even more). To shell out that much $$$, you need a certain degree of commitment, like that shown by people who travel to see events or make it their vacation. Those fans are a core group of SC and the ISU’s “customer base”, and their needs should be taken into account. In any other business, repeat customers are highly valued and treated accordingly.

Unfortunately, I have the impression that the PTB in skating often tend to take fans for granted, and operate on the assumption that fans will put up with just about anything to watch the sport, so that little effort needs to be made to cater to them. (This observation does not apply to the skaters, most of whom are wonderful to their fans).

Has SC assessed the availability of hotel space in London for out-of-town ticket buyers? Or is the only concern that there be enough hotel space for the athletes, judges, officials? Is SC going to offer buyers of all-event ticket packages the chance to book hotel space at a convention rate? Or does SC expect fans to support the event while fending for themselves, like maybe having to pay five star hotel rates for a two star property, because of market demand?

Lots of comments in this thread about how London is accessible, not that hard to get to, yada yada. Yup, it’s a two hour drive from Toronto. But if you can’t get a hotel room, you’re looking at a 4 hour daily commute. Which isn’t very convenient.

How the JLC will possibly have the working space to accommodate the needs of worldwide media is another problem entirely.

[jp1andonly]

not going to comment on anything but many teams do not stay in the host hotel and like to stay in places just outside the venue. There are towns and cities close to london that have hotels for those that want them..

William Thompson’s post was interesting to read. He’s given a plausible explanation for how and why SC made its decision.

From my reading of his post, two factors seem to have tipped the balance in London’s direction: the expectation of a sellout and the “government support” that came with the London bid. I take that to mean taxpayer dollars at some level(s) are being used to underwrite /subsidize the costs that SC will incur in hosting the event. That $$S seems to have trumped any downsides to London’s bid.

But William’s post has sidestepped the practical issues that people are concerned about.

London only has about 3,300 hotel rooms. That’s a simple fact - right from the website of Tourism London.
http://www.londontourism.ca/Meeting-Planners/Why-London
[As a comparison, Calgary (venue of last Worlds held in Canada) has over 11,000 hotel rooms
http://www.meetingscalgary.com/index.php?page=accommodations-2]

How much of London’s limited hotel capacity will be needed for athletes/coaches/federations/ISU/SkateCanada/judges/media, etc at a pre-Olympic Worlds?

If they can be housed in 600 or so rooms, it may be OK. But what if they need, say, 1,500 rooms or more? Keep in mind that London has businesses and a major university that also draw hotel traffic. That will not stop just because a figure skating competition is coming to town. You don’t need a “medical convention”(major or otherwise). If normal business traffic keeps hotels only about 30% full (which seems low), that’s 1,100 rooms taken right there. And that traffic has to exist at some reasonable level, otherwise these properties couldn’t stay in business – they’re not empty all the time.

That doesn’t leave much hotel space for people coming from out of town to see Worlds. Whether you are travelling from Toronto or Tokyo, you’re going to need a place to stay.

Since a sellout of the event seems to be so important to SC, they should be concerned about this. A certain proportion of ticket sales is going to come from out-of-towners. Yes, they got a lot of local support for Nationals. But keep in mind that ticket prices for Nationals and Skate Canada Int’l are pretty modestly priced – around $200 for the whole event (and tickets for individual events priced proportionately). Not hard to see that casual fans might spend that kind of money to check out a local event, make it a family outing, etc.

But tickets for Worlds are priced at about 3 or 4 times that level (or even more). To shell out that much $$$, you need a certain degree of commitment, like that shown by people who travel to see events or make it their vacation. Those fans are a core group of SC and the ISU’s “customer base”, and their needs should be taken into account. In any other business, repeat customers are highly valued and treated accordingly.

Unfortunately, I have the impression that the PTB in skating often tend to take fans for granted, and operate on the assumption that fans will put up with just about anything to watch the sport, so that little effort needs to be made to cater to them. (This observation does not apply to the skaters, most of whom are wonderful to their fans).

Has SC assessed the availability of hotel space in London for out-of-town ticket buyers? Or is the only concern that there be enough hotel space for the athletes, judges, officials? Is SC going to offer buyers of all-event ticket packages the chance to book hotel space at a convention rate? Or does SC expect fans to support the event while fending for themselves, like maybe having to pay five star hotel rates for a two star property, because of market demand?

Lots of comments in this thread about how London is accessible, not that hard to get to, yada yada. Yup, it’s a two hour drive from Toronto. But if you can’t get a hotel room, you’re looking at a 4 hour daily commute. Which isn’t very convenient.

How the JLC will possibly have the working space to accommodate the needs of worldwide media is another problem entirely.

[snobben2345]

not going to comment on anything but many teams do not stay in the host hotel and like to stay in places just outside the venue. There are towns and cities close to london that have hotels for those that want them..

The largest hotel in London is the Hilton, with about 300 rooms. I assume it will be the host hotel. 300 rooms is a mid-size (not large) hotel, at best.

I don't know what nearby towns and cities you are referring to. The city of London is very spread out. Toronto and Hamilton are about 2 hours away. Stratford is one hour away. I can understand athletes wanting to be away from the busy pace of the host hotel, but I would think that you'd want to stay *within the city limits* of the place you are competing and not undertake hours of commuting to/from.

[jp1andonly]

hmm..since when is hamilton 2 hours away. I usually make it to london in about 1.5 hours..sometimes less :)

The largest hotel in London is the Hilton, with about 300 rooms. I assume it will be the host hotel. 300 rooms is a mid-size (not large) hotel, at best.

I don't know what nearby towns and cities you are referring to. The city of London is very spread out. Toronto and Hamilton are about 2 hours away. Stratford is one hour away. I can understand athletes wanting to be away from the busy pace of the host hotel, but I would think that you'd want to stay *within the city limits* of the place you are competing and not undertake hours of commuting to/from.

[snobben2345]

hmm..since when is hamilton 2 hours away. I usually make it to london in about 1.5 hours..sometimes less :)

Great –you’ve just proved my point.

Neither spectators or competitors should have to spend 3 hours (1.5 hours each way)commuting from their hotel to a competition venue. Nor should any other inter-city commute (of whatever duration) be required. If that is necessary, the host city has inadequate capacity, by definition.

If you’re an athlete, arriving late is not an option. So you have allow for extra time in case of traffic congestion (unheard of in southern Ontario, right?), and leave early, thus cutting into rest (or other preparation) time.
Plus, there is always the risk in March of a snowstorm or freezing rain that could complicate driving conditions. You can’t predict the weather that far in advance.

If you are the coach of an elite athlete who has to perform in a sport that demands focus and concentration, why on earth would you run even slightest risk of having your athletes distracted by the additional stress of an inter—city commute *on the day of competition*? And not just any competition, but Worlds where placement will affect Olympic spots.

This shouldn’t be a scenario that anyone should have to even consider, much less endure. If it comes down to that, this event will have serious problems.

I’m glad that Worlds has been awarded to Canada. But the host federation has a responsibility to make sure that the event is hosted in a location that can properly accommodate the attendees. SC may indeed have done its due diligence. I’m open to being convinced. But based on what I saw at Nationals in January and having read William Thompson’s post, right now I don’t have any confidence that SC made the right decision.

Edited to add: I have no vested interest in Winnipeg at all - never been there. It makes no difference to me what city in Canada gets to host Worlds, so long as the host city has suitable capacity. IMO, London doesn't.

[lexeoe]

i think before any bid was forwarded to the ISU, i'm certain everything was done accordingly and was deemed sufficient or else they won't put it forward. there will always be pros and cons and there will always be people who will be accepting the results and there will be those who will not accept it at all in anyway.

just my 2 cents.

[professordeb]

Being only an hour away from London I'm saying
Wheeeeeeeeeee!
I'm planning on attending my first Worlds and getting excited about it already.

[Winnipeg]

snobbin makes some good points. Expecting athletes and even attendees to commute daily for over an hour each day is not reasonable.

I've attended Worlds in Dortmund, Edmonton and Vancouver and in all three cases, accommodation was no problem and travel to and from the venue no problem - Vancouver we walked, Dortmund has an excellent subway which took about 10 minutes each way from the venue and our hotel - very easy. The train station also had access to trains outside of Dortmund if you were on vacation and wanted to see another area while in Germany. For example, we took the train to Berlin out of the same station we took the train to the venue - the station was across the street from the hotel - very convenient indeed. The station also had trains directly to the Frankfurt airport terminal.

While it is true there is a train from Toronto to London, it leaves out of downtown Toronto, not the airport. Downtown is about a 50 dollar cab ride from the TO airport. Also, unlike in Germany, the options for trains are much less frequent.

Edmonton also has a great public transport option for visitors as does Calgary.

In any event, this location, IMHO, would not be as convenient and does not lend itself as a great vacation spot for folks outside of the general area - albeit there are a lot of folks in the general area which will help sell it out I'm sure!

Maybe some locals will open temporary B and B's?

[deedeelocks]

While it is true there is a train from Toronto to London, it leaves out of downtown Toronto, not the airport. Downtown is about a 50 dollar cab ride from the TO airport. Also, unlike in Germany, the options for trains are much less frequent.
and the only option from Toronto airport to the city is a cab? Busses are not running? O.o

[The Accordion]

Have we reached 1000 posts in this thread yet? Feels like it! ;)

[Bailey_]

1001...

I looked into train from Toronto to London last winter for nationals. If I remember correctly, the cost was approximately $100 each way - not practical if you are having to commute every day due to lack of hotel room availability and not even practical just to get to London - that's why I had a layover and flew into the city. There is no GO Train to London.

And, I've taken the subway/bus connection to get from downtown Toronto to the airport. It's been a few years, but that was also not convenient for anyone trying it. Why the subway line did not extend to the airport I do not understand? Maybe it's changed, I don't know. The airport is quite a distance from downtown - I'm sure the cab fare would be a fair chunk of change.

I think some important questions have been raised in recent posts. Having been to national and world competitions and having been to events in both arenas, I have serious concerns for the ability of the city and the JLC to host an event of this size. Yes, they did a great job with nationals and it will sell out but I think Winnipeg would have sold out too. And, knowing the services available in Winnipeg - hotels, restaurants (I just learned that they are demolishing a building across from the arena to develop restaurants and sports bars), the new Human Rights Museum, the new airport - so many great things are happening in Winnipeg right now, I still feel like SC has missed the boat and limited themselves by awarding the event to London.

[cygnus]

and the only option from Toronto airport to the city is a cab? Busses are not running? O.o

No, they have a shuttle bus that runs from the airport to the downtown hotels- every half hour or so. Just ask for the Royal York- it's across the street from the train station.

http://www.torontoairportexpress.com/

[sk8er1964]

Lets move it to Windsor.

[yfbg722]

I believe Mr. Thompson stated that Canadians sold out over the weekend this year. I know for a fact that hotel rooms were still available as of the Saturday so there won't be a problem with anyone who wants a room getting one. The number of tickets sold, if the events sells out, will be the same so Canadians was a good test run for Worlds. While it's perhaps true that more people from out of town will want to come to this competition, the local fan base will likely be out in force too so I don't see there being any major difference.