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bek
04-15-2010, 03:25 PM
think she's a better skater than Shelepen and Agafonova, but her jumps aren't as nice as theirs.

I think that Agafonova's skating might improve though. People who saw her at Junior Worlds said that she's not slow, but its just she's so tiny that it takes a lot of effort to make it accross the ice. Her skating might improve if she grows a little bit (as long as she doesn't lose her jumps)

judgejudy27
04-15-2010, 03:47 PM
I think that Agafonova's skating might improve though. People who saw her at Junior Worlds said that she's not slow, but its just she's so tiny that it takes a lot of effort to make it accross the ice. Her skating might improve if she grows a little bit (as long as she doesn't lose her jumps)

Honestly I think it will be easier for the two Polina's to improve the rest of their skating than it will be for Anna to improve her jumps, and the two Polina's were even beating her regularly this season. Who knows for sure though. The Russians have so many young skaters coming up, and some even more highly regarded ones (at the moment) entering juniors next season, it will be fascinating to see the road all of them take and which ones end up on the Sochi team. I presume they will have 3 spots by then, it would be very dissapointing for them if they didnt.

Ziggy
04-15-2010, 06:52 PM
Ovcharova's jumping technique is terrible but I am really hoping she can fix it (she's improved it already somewhat since the start of the season, as has been noted already).

She is by far the most interesting skater out of all the "babies" IMO. She is really perky, has tons of character on the ice and very good basics. A strong all-round skater. Just add better jumps to the mix and you have all you could ask for. :)

pinky166
04-15-2010, 07:13 PM
In the hypothetical she skated cleanly she probably be beating any of the current Juniors other than possibly Murakami so just because she sometimes beats Gao or Kiri doesnt prove at all she is being consistent. Those are skaters she would beat all the time at this point if she werent the most inconsistent of all the top juniors probably. Kiri is also inconsistent and would be beating Gao easily if she werent as her PCS are higher from the judges even for flawed performances. Kostner and Nagasu often beat Flatt, I wouldnt say that means they are more consistent skaters than Flatt.

I did not see her Russian Nationals LP until now. However she was only 8th in the short so she must have really bombed that.

I agree that she and Kiri and fairly comparable in that jumping is not their strong suit, sometimes they have problems in the LP, and their PCS and everything else help them stay high in the standings. In reality though, most of the junior ladies aren't that consistent with the exception of Kanako and Shelepen earlier in the season, though recently she seems to be having a lot of issues in the SP.

As for Agafonova, she is not exactly consistent either. She didn't qualify for the JGPF because she bombed at one of her events and only finished 10th at Russian Nationals, where Anna had two solid performances and finished 5th.

Anna's SP at the Junior Nationals she didn't bomb, she just had issues on her combination (stepped out of it). The scores were all really close and that's why she was 8th, her SP score was like 54 so it wasn't that bad.

I agree that Kiri and Anna could probably beat most of the other girls if they were more consistent, but I think they are both going through some growing pains currently and that may be part of the reason for it. They are the most complete skaters of the junior ladies IMO, they just need to be better about landing the jumps.

pinky166
04-15-2010, 07:31 PM
Ovcharova's jumping technique is terrible but I am really hoping she can fix it (she's improved it already somewhat since the start of the season, as has been noted already).

She is by far the most interesting skater out of all the "babies" IMO. She is really perky, has tons of character on the ice and very good basics. A strong all-round skater. Just add better jumps to the mix and you have all you could ask for. :)

I agree. I think what she really needs is to learn how to do a toeloop in combination. Sounds crazy but I actually think that is part of the problem. For all her combination jumps she tacks on 2lo, and in order to rotate those jumps without the assistance of her free leg she torques her body a lot and really uses her arms to get around. Also, if the landing on the first jump isn't quite right, she is forced to do a 3-turn before going into the second jumps. In her 2 jump combos she seems to have gotten much better, but in the 3 jump combo it's hard to do two 2lo in a row if you're technique and flow aren't spot on.

I don't know how hard technique is to fix, but one thing that does make her situation different from someone like Caroline Zhang or Alissa Czisny is that he carries a lot of speed across the ice. Her edge takeoffs are also fine and she doesn't have any weird kick so really what I think she needs to work on is flow coming out of the jumps. Her 2a is good in this sense but that's likely because of the forward takeoff. Under-rotations also don't seem to be a big problem for her either except on the loop jump. Also, maybe she should take a break from attempting all of her jumps from such difficult transitions, I know she does that to get the PCS up but she should focus on the technique first. She definitely doesn't seem tentative which is also good because the speed and attack should help when she tries to rework her jumps.

There's an interview with her coach on the Russian skating website where she says next season she is really going to work with Anna on the LP. She says that in the coming season they will pick a LP that will highlight Anna's strengths so that she doesn't fire everything up only in the SP like she did most of this season, and work on doing more run-throughs so that Anna can become more consistent and comfortable with the jumps. I think that sounds like a good plan and hope it works. She was a nice surprise this season, I remember thinking her programs at JGP Budapest were really fun and as the season went on she got much better.

As for basic skating being easier to fix than jumps, it's likely the Polina's will have to fix their jumps once they go through puberty. Mirai didn't have bad technique as a little kid but Frank Carrrol said that in the past year he has had to reconstruct nearly all of Mirai's jump technique. Unless you have flawless technique (which neither Polinas do), chances are you have to rework it once your body changes. I honestly think some of Anna's struggles this season are due to physical changes rather than purely technique issues or being a headcase. Sotnikova and Baga have been having similar issues and Shelepen seems to be developing them too. Anna is 20cm taller than Agafonova so obviously it is harder for her to jump, and she also has a somewhat defined body shape unlike Shelepen who is still built like a little boy with no hips or shoulders, on the ice Anna actually doesn't look that different physically from a lot of the thinner senior ladies so she might be going through the rebuilding period of her jumps now.

Oh and about Liza, she looks about Agafonova's size judging from these pictures:
http://www.alena-leonova.ru/photo/chempionat_rossii_2010/41-0-1521
http://www.alena-leonova.ru/photo/chempionat_rossii_2010/41-0-1520
Alena is 5'3" and Ksenia 5'6" so Liza is well under 5 feet tall. I thought she was tall but she is still very, very tiny and may be a question mark in the future. Shelepen and Ovcharova are both taller than Leonova and therefore less worrisome, even if their jumps aren't as good, as Liza may grow the better part of a foot before she stops.

bek
04-15-2010, 09:41 PM
Both of Eliza's parents are reportedly short, so people don't think she's going to be that tall..

pinky166
04-16-2010, 12:28 AM
Both of Eliza's parents are reportedly short, so people don't think she's going to be that tall..

Yeah, but that could be an issue too. Elene Gedevanishvilli was really short and tiny at that age and then she didn't get much taller but filled out a lot and her jumps suffered. I remember her at the Olympics in 2006, doing 3f-3t like they were doubles and now she's so tentative with all her jumps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AsmS-euWXo&feature=related
I miss this Elene, she was thrilling.

I like Liza though so I hope puberty doesn't ruin her.

oleada
04-16-2010, 12:51 AM
Aren't those podium pics, where Liza is a step below the other two?

pinky166
04-16-2010, 12:55 AM
Aren't those podium pics, where Liza is a step below the other two?

No, in those pics they are all standing on the ice. Liza really is just that little. She might be okay though, but she certainly has a lot of growing ahead of her, I had no idea she was so tiny, she does a good job of looking tall on the ice.

pinky166
04-16-2010, 05:58 AM
Does anyone have a link to a video of Liza doing 3a on the ice? I heard she did it in a competition or at a competition practice, I really want to see it! Bet it's awesome.

Autumn_girl
04-16-2010, 07:16 AM
Does anyone have a link to a video of Liza doing 3a on the ice? I heard she did it in a competition or at a competition practice, I really want to see it! Bet it's awesome.

I heard she did it on practice before her last competition and it was clean, but there is no video :( She tried it in her FS too, but it was a bad day for her, her axel was only single (and some other jumps too). By the way, Roza Sheveleva did really well there, beat Liza in FS and got bonus points (it means she did clean 3-3 or clean 3Lz and 3F with no edge calls which also impressive), so I think we will see her on the JGP next season ;)

As for Elene, she is from Geogria. Most Georgian girls fill out a lot at this age, so it was predictable. And I don't think it will happen with Liza. Puberty will be the real test, yes, but she has perfect technique and maybe the best coach in the world when it comes to jumps, so I think she will be fine. I'm more worried about Adelina.

pinky166
04-16-2010, 05:28 PM
I heard she did it on practice before her last competition and it was clean, but there is no video :( She tried it in her FS too, but it was a bad day for her, her axel was only single (and some other jumps too). By the way, Roza Sheveleva did really well there, beat Liza in FS and got bonus points (it means she did clean 3-3 or clean 3Lz and 3F with no edge calls which also impressive), so I think we will see her on the JGP next season ;)

As for Elene, she is from Geogria. Most Georgian girls fill out a lot at this age, so it was predictable. And I don't think it will happen with Liza. Puberty will be the real test, yes, but she has perfect technique and maybe the best coach in the world when it comes to jumps, so I think she will be fine. I'm more worried about Adelina.


Yay Roza! She is just the cutest thing ever :D. Yeah I think she will get JGP assignments, especially if Shelepen and maybe Agafonova/Ovcharova/Birukova move up to the SGP. Anna got JGP assignments this season despite only finishing 16th at the Junior Nationals in 09 because she did well at some local Russian competitions at the end of the year. I agree about Liza, I think she will be ok, it was more just a surprised. I had assumed she was more the same height as Shelepen and Ovcharova but she clearly is not. She might just stay little even when she grows up though.

ITA about Adelina, so sad to see her struggle so much recently :(, she is so gorgeous out there but she just falls so much. She and Anna both skate at CSKA and neither seem to have ideal technique and both fall a lot, are the coaches at that club not known for teaching good technique to their skaters? Clearly they are good at other things though because Adelina and Anna both have great spins, stretch, and basic skating. Is the club Shelepen and Lipinskaya known to be better? I know that it is in Moscow too, and those girls seem to have better technique on the jumps and fall a lot less. Adelina's issue may just be that she is growing a lot though, so maybe by next season she'll be adjusted at least for awhile and be able to deliver more clean performances.

pinky166
04-16-2010, 11:37 PM
:lol: I just came across this picture, seems like Mishin REALLY wants Liza to be the next Irina, and believes she can do it. How cute.

http://photo.fsonline.ru/main.php?g2_itemId=23668

Whoa and Adelina and Alena look like they could be sisters.

caseyedwards
04-17-2010, 12:13 AM
I wonder who the Kevin Reynolds almost look alike is-the blond hair one. But Elizaveta is right in the center! Next big hope for sure.

pinky166
04-17-2010, 12:18 AM
I wonder who the Kevin Reynolds almost look alike is-the blond hair one. But Elizaveta is right in the center! Next big hope for sure.

I don't know who it is but he really does look like Reynolds. Haha yeah Liza is front and center! Ksenia and Anna look sassy as usual.