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pinky166
06-07-2010, 04:30 AM
Oh and does that great skate by Roza mean she will get JGP assignments in the coming season? Seems like there are a lot of good girls in contention and not a lot of spots, also I think Roza bombed Junior Nats IIRC.

Autumn_girl
06-07-2010, 10:05 AM
I wonder if it's harder to learn the jumps when you are innately musical, or to learn about expression when you are a natural jumper.

This girl sure can jump. But could she have ignored the music more? :yikes: Reminds me of Slutskaya's 'artistry'. :scream:

Jumps are the most important for these young skaters, everything else can be improved. Especially for Roza now, she was inconsistant whole season. As for Slutskaya, I disagree with you. She was artistic in her own way. It wasn't cute-princess-like artistry, but it was power, emotions, I enjoyed watching her performances. She was different, but she had artistry.


Oh and does that great skate by Roza mean she will get JGP assignments in the coming season? Seems like there are a lot of good girls in contention and not a lot of spots, also I think Roza bombed Junior Nats IIRC.
Well, there are 6 girls who will likely get 2 spots:
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
Adelina Sotnikova
Polina Shelepen
Polina Agafonova
Anna Ovcharova
Sofia Biryukova

Roza has seasons best 153 points, higher than other girls have, but there's also Kristina Zaseeva with seasons best about 150 points too, who was more consistant than Roza, won SP at Junior Nationals, has all triples and 3T-3T. So I'm not sure about Roza. I think Kristina deserves 2 spots and has good chances to make the final, but who knows

Ozzisk8tr
06-07-2010, 10:13 AM
I wonder if it's harder to learn the jumps when you are innately musical, or to learn about expression when you are a natural jumper.

This girl sure can jump. But could she have ignored the music more? :yikes: Reminds me of Slutskaya's 'artistry'. :scream:

I know one thing for sure. Learning to be musical isn't anywhere near as physically painful as learning how to jump is. ;)

oleada
06-07-2010, 04:18 PM
Well, she's just turned 14. Sometimes I wonder if we are asking too much at once for all these girls. A lot of skaters who were later known for being artistic weren't at that age.

pinky166
06-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Well, she's just turned 14. Sometimes I wonder if we are asking too much at once for all these girls. A lot of skaters who were later known for being artistic weren't at that age.

Anna and Adelina are the same age though and already artistic and musical.

pinky166
06-07-2010, 04:28 PM
Jumps are the most important for these young skaters, everything else can be improved. Especially for Roza now, she was inconsistant whole season. As for Slutskaya, I disagree with you. She was artistic in her own way. It wasn't cute-princess-like artistry, but it was power, emotions, I enjoyed watching her performances. She was different, but she had artistry.


Well, there are 6 girls who will likely get 2 spots:
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva
Adelina Sotnikova
Polina Shelepen
Polina Agafonova
Anna Ovcharova
Sofia Biryukova

Roza has seasons best 153 points, higher than other girls have, but there's also Kristina Zaseeva with seasons best about 150 points too, who was more consistant than Roza, won SP at Junior Nationals, has all triples and 3T-3T. So I'm not sure about Roza. I think Kristina deserves 2 spots and has good chances to make the final, but who knows

Maybe Kristina and Roza will each get 1 assignment then, and then that fills out the roster. I find it odd that Shelepen didn't decide to move up to seniors.

oleada
06-07-2010, 04:29 PM
Anna and Adelina are the same age though and already artistic and musical.

Yes, but were Kwan & Kim particularly musical at that age? No, not really. Skaters aren't going to develop at the same rate.

Shelepen decided to stay a junior due to potential changes in the age limits.

pinky166
06-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Yes, but were Kwan & Kim particularly musical at that age? No, not really. Skaters aren't going to develop at the same rate.

Shelepen decided to stay a junior due to potential changes in the age limits.

I don't know, Yuna skated to Tando de Roxanne with a lot of flair and musicality in the 05-06 season when she was 14-15, and Michelle had her beautiful Salome program at 15. But you are right, it sometimes just takes awhile to develop artistry. I think that's why you really notice the girls who do have artistry at this age, because it isn't that common, at the JGPF this winter, Kanako and Anna blew me away with their ability to connect to the music, it was awesome.

Marco
06-08-2010, 03:58 AM
It really is about the ability to appreciate music.

Cohen and NNN at 13 were showing a great deal of understanding of music (tone and rythym). Kim and Asada were delightful at Junior Worlds skating to Over the Rainbow and Papa Can You Hear Me when they were 14. Kwan wasn't artistic at 14 but I loved how she handled and presented Rondo and Yellow River Concerto.

No one (or at least not me) is expecting these 13 - 14 year olds to be artistic, but they should at least demonstrate a certain level of understanding of music if they want to break into the elite scene. This girl is just skating through the music and not caring about it. If it's an innate thing, it's going to be hard to change.

Either that or these young girls are just too focused on landing those 3lutzes and 3flips off the unmusical and awkward one foot steps they somehow had to do that they had no time to listen to the music.

pinky166
06-08-2010, 04:52 AM
It really is about the ability to appreciate music.

Cohen and NNN at 13 were showing a great deal of understanding of music (tone and rythym). Kim and Asada were delightful at Junior Worlds skating to Over the Rainbow and Papa Can You Hear Me when they were 14. Kwan wasn't artistic at 14 but I loved how she handled and presented Rondo and Yellow River Concerto.

No one (or at least not me) is expecting these 13 - 14 year olds to be artistic, but they should at least demonstrate a certain level of understanding of music if they want to break into the elite scene. This girl is just skating through the music and not caring about it. If it's an innate thing, it's going to be hard to change.

Either that or these young girls are just too focused on landing those 3lutzes and 3flips off the unmusical and awkward one foot steps they somehow had to do that they had no time to listen to the music.

Here's an argument. In this program at 13 years old Anna nails 3lz and 3f out of difficult steps AND listens to and expresses her music. Skills.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s-c5Jw6MuE

Adelina's done the same at some of her Russian Cup events, but I can't find the links on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3Qb7ARRB1A Polina Shelepen who isn't even that expresses manages to skate to her music well while landing 3f-3t-2lo, and this was a year and a half ago, when she was 13. I think skaters can be musical at a young age, just some aren't.

Domshabfan
06-08-2010, 07:22 AM
It really is about the ability to appreciate music.

Cohen and NNN at 13 were showing a great deal of understanding of music (tone and rythym). Kim and Asada were delightful at Junior Worlds skating to Over the Rainbow and Papa Can You Hear Me when they were 14. Kwan wasn't artistic at 14 but I loved how she handled and presented Rondo and Yellow River Concerto.



Either that or these young girls are just too focused on landing those 3lutzes and 3flips off the unmusical and awkward one foot steps they somehow had to do that they had no time to listen to the music.

Most of these girls have done something Cohen could never do... back to back clean programs in the same competition. Plus, most of these girls have harder 3+3 combinations, which is not the case with Cohen.

You expect 14 years to be complete package with great jumps, spins, spirals, musicality and artistic (again that abides your definition of artistry), but yet you compare it to Cohen who was consistently inconsistent with her jumps.

Marco
06-08-2010, 07:29 AM
Most of these girls have done something Cohen could never do... back to back clean programs in the same competition. Plus, most of these girls have harder 3+3 combinations, which is not the case with Cohen.

You expect 14 years to be complete package with great jumps, spins, spirals, musicality and artistic (again that abides your definition of artistry), but yet you compare it to Cohen who was consistently inconsistent with her jumps.

You do realise I didn't say anything you thought or said I said.

Autumn_girl
06-08-2010, 09:24 AM
Either that or these young girls are just too focused on landing those 3lutzes and 3flips off the unmusical and awkward one foot steps they somehow had to do that they had no time to listen to the music.

Maybe this girl, Roza, will never be the next Kim or Asada. She is not even the best of Russian juniors, only 10th or 11th on the list. But she can be succesful as a skater and have a decent career, 'cause she already has all triples, speed and her technique is good enough. This is the most important for a young skater, everything else can be improved.

pinky166
06-08-2010, 03:30 PM
Maybe this girl, Roza, will never be the next Kim or Asada. She is not even the best of Russian juniors, only 10th or 11th on the list. But she can be succesful as a skater and have a decent career, 'cause she already has all triples, speed and her technique is good enough. This is the most important for a young skater, everything else can be improved.

You never know though at this age, puberty is the big question. Christina Gao was last in the novice division at nationals when she was 13 and is now poised to be the next big star. Mirai didn't make it out of regionals the year before she won the junior national title. Kimmie and Caroline were all that in juniors then struggled in seniors. This girl could be the next big thing in Russia, we just have to wait and see how she and the others deal with growing up.

Sylvia
06-08-2010, 03:42 PM
Christina Gao was last in the novice division at nationals when she was 13
True, but Gao qualified for 2008 Nationals by winning her Sectional Championships in a very close competition with the eventual national novice champ. Inconsistent results from one competition to the next is normal for most young skaters, and the ones who survive puberty and can improve their jump consistency and mental game (among other key things) in important competitions will tend to make it to the highest levels, barring injuries of course. That's why I personally prefer not to declare anyone to be "poised to be the the next big star" -- I'd rather let their skating and results over time do the talking. :)

Back on topic... it's really great to have so many talented young Russian ladies right now, and I'm fascinated to see which ones will end up being the main contendors for Sochi.