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Autumn_girl
04-23-2010, 08:57 PM
As for Liza, I wanna know what is the main problem regarding her LP this year.
I love this program so much. It's one of the best Novis ladies LP I've ever seen. I thought it was well choreographed.
It's interesting to know how other people see it.

There's nothing wrong with her programs and/or choreography. It's just because she is in Mishin's group and it's like a stereotype "Mishin = jumps and nothing more". First of all, Mishin is not a full-time coach as some people may think. He is only a consultant for all of his students (including Plushenko), there are another coaches and choreographers in his group. And Liza is absolutely not "all about jumps", she is working on spins, speed, presentation, etc. and it's getting better. As well as another young Mishin's student, 12 y.o. Darya Medvedeva
SP from Zhuk Memorial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM5JRtxyW2E
FS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy0AwGdevP4&feature=related
She has good jumps (her tano lutz is really impressive!) with no edge calls, but also nice presentation and choreography for her age

pinky166
04-24-2010, 04:00 AM
I guess we'll see what the judges have to think of Liza this fall on the JGP. Undoubtedly, she will get very high technical marks, but I wonder if she will lag behind other top ladies in PCS like Shelepen or receive high PCS even for flawed performances like Ovcharova.

Also, any word on if any of these girls (Shelepen, Agafonova, Ovcharova and I guess Birukova too) have officially decided JGP or SGP/Senior B for the coming season? I'm really anxious to know what they decide, I think it would be exciting if they competed on the senior ranks :)

oleada
04-24-2010, 04:02 AM
There's nothing wrong with her programs and/or choreography. It's just because she is in Mishin's group and it's like a stereotype "Mishin = jumps and nothing more". First of all, Mishin is not a full-time coach as some people may think. He is only a consultant for all of his students (including Plushenko), there are another coaches and choreographers in his group. And Liza is absolutely not "all about jumps", she is working on spins, speed, presentation, etc. and it's getting better. As well as another young Mishin's student, 12 y.o. Darya Medvedeva
SP from Zhuk Memorial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM5JRtxyW2E
FS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy0AwGdevP4&feature=related
She has good jumps (her tano lutz is really impressive!) with no edge calls, but also nice presentation and choreography for her age

I think Medvedeva is really promising. She's got style and charisma, and with the jumps - she should do well. I'll also like to see what she has to do next year. :) I really enjoy her skating a lot.

key65man
04-24-2010, 04:21 AM
As for Liza, I wanna know what is the main problem regarding her LP this year.
I love this program so much. It's one of the best Novis ladies LP I've ever seen. I thought it was well choreographed.
It's interesting to know how other people see it.

Lizaís LP last season was very tough for a kid of her age. The music is difficult is to interpret. The program is composed very tightly, choreographically complex, and technically demanding.

Some coaches prefer a step-by-step approach giving their kids what they can handle while the others throw tougher pieces at them. Mishin apparently is going with the latter, and it can be quite effective for very talented kids like Liza. The same thing has been done in the field of music for centuries. At the same time, Liza is competing at the senior level in Russia, so the coaches might have felt that Liza needed a more sophisticated program.

key65man
04-24-2010, 04:27 AM
I actually think Liza has a good sense of music-for her age.. I mean you cannot compare Liza to Yu-na now, you have to look at Yu-na when she was Liza's age. And its not like Yu-na had this hugely sophisticated program at her age.... She had musicality, but she wasn't like she is now....Yu-na had good arms though, as does Liza.

The thing is that I think the main thing at Liza's age is to be given the skaters good basics/ technique. Although I'm sure her skating skills can improve, and I DO worry with Mishin because he focuses so much on jumps. I'm thinking he's getting a better understanding of the system. However she's also only 13. Plushenko when he was younger did skate with a lot of speed and power, and so I'm hoping she will too...

It really depends on how we define musicality. I do agree, however, that Liza can be artistically very convincing as suggested by the level of articulation in her moves. They look very natural, not forced, and she manages to create elegant lines with the moves. Not an easy thing to do regardless of age.

It is true that some of Lizaís programs are more complex than Yuna of the same age. As I said before, I do suspect that Liza finds her programs (e.g., LP last season) too demanding right now, which has something to do with her level of synchronization and musicality.

Marco
04-24-2010, 05:12 AM
I think Elizaveta is definitely musical; I thought she used the music quite well in the LP at 2008 Russian Nationals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBCYYSGvWD0

I'm not sure if the current team she has is the best at bringing it out, though.

:shuffle: I actually think this exactly shows what her problem is. Nothing she does relates to the music. She shows no appreciation of the rhythm or pace of the music and does not express any mood or nuance. She does not skate with or even to the music. All the transitions and choreography she does are oddly out of place with the music.

To show how bad it is: Miki Ando does this music more justice :P

pinky166
04-24-2010, 03:48 PM
:shuffle: I actually think this exactly shows what her problem is. Nothing she does relates to the music. She shows no appreciation of the rhythm or pace of the music and does not express any mood or nuance. She does not skate with or even to the music. All the transitions and choreography she does are oddly out of place with the music.

To show how bad it is: Miki Ando does this music more justice :P

Yeah....I really don't think she is musical, but her jumps are better than all the other girls' (at least for now).

Polina Agafonova is musical and so is Anna Ovcharova and that probably helped both these girls beat Liza at junior nationals. Those two are actually quite matured for their age in terms of presence and expression, watching them I don't think I'm watching 13 year olds skate, Liza on the other hand.

Marco
04-24-2010, 05:58 PM
I don't particularly think that Polina Agafonova is musical (yet). But her deadliest sin is her Caroline Zhang-like 2axel. :yikes:

Autumn_girl
04-24-2010, 06:29 PM
I don't particularly think that Polina Agafonova is musical (yet). But her deadliest sin is her Caroline Zhang-like 2axel. :yikes:

Sometimes Polina reminds me young Caroline, but better. She is tiny, has excellent spins and yes, this 2A :wall: But fortunately she is not that slow and her other jumps are much better, so I think she has better chances. As for Caroline, I don't think it's possible to fix her jumps :( Maybe I'm wrong (and I hope I'm wrong, I like her, she is cute).
I've heard Polina is working with Urmanov now (no idea if he is her new coach or only a consultant), so maybe he will help her with her 2A.

pinky166
04-24-2010, 07:02 PM
I don't particularly think that Polina Agafonova is musical (yet). But her deadliest sin is her Caroline Zhang-like 2axel. :yikes:

Yeah. I have fears that both Polina and Anna could end up like Caroline (though I seriously hope that doesn't happen) with their unusual technique. Anna's 2axel technique is actually good, but the rest of her jumps are a bit odd looking. Both girls use too much upper body, Polina in her 3lz-3t and Anna just in general (you can tell by how muscularly defined her arms are).

They are young though and have time, and I don't think Anna will grow half a foot in the next year or two like Caroline did at that age, and as for Polina, maybe she will stay very tiny.

They are my favorites so I really hope they figure out their issues and continue to progress, part of the reason why I like both girls so much is because they don't remind me of any other skaters. Apart from her Zhang-like 2a, Polina is unique, and I can't think of any established lady skater who reminds me of Anna at all, I mean I guess her wildness is a bit similar to Irina but IMO she has a really unique and different style that is exciting to watch.

Autumn_girl
04-24-2010, 07:29 PM
As for Anna, sometimes she reminds me a bit of Elena Sokolova (when she was "on" of corse). And I really like her for that, Sokolova was my favorite skater. So many talanted young girls in Russia now and each of them is unique, and only 3 spots for JW :( This year I was very upset when Sofia Biryukova didn't make the team (if it was not Sofia, but Polina or Anna, I would also be upset). Next year, when Liza and others will be eligible, seems like I'll be even more upset...

pinky166
04-24-2010, 11:06 PM
As for Anna, sometimes she reminds me a bit of Elena Sokolova (when she was "on" of corse). And I really like her for that, Sokolova was my favorite skater. So many talanted young girls in Russia now and each of them is unique, and only 3 spots for JW :( This year I was very upset when Sofia Biryukova didn't make the team (if it was not Sofia, but Polina or Anna, I would also be upset). Next year, when Liza and others will be eligible, seems like I'll be even more upset...

I know, there are so many young, talented girls. And in her more upbeat programs, I can see the resemblance to Anna a bit, I hope Anna can work to get jump technique as good as Sokolova, she was a great technician! I wonder if she is familiar with this skate of Irina's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SXO6s3MCDw , the choreography reminds me a lot of her LP this season. Is it bad that I want Anna to compete in seniors next season? My guess is she'll probably do another season junior I just want to watch an exciting skater on the senior ranks and recently there aren't really any who are exciting and skate to upbeat music except Mirai.

I was upset a bit about Birukova too, I wish she had gone to Jr Worlds and gotten another JGP event because she likely would have made the JGPF and then there would have been 4 Russian ladies at the final :). I was hoping the Jr Worlds team this year was going to be Agafonova, Ovcharova, and Birukova but realistically I knew Shelepen would be on the team. It's probably a good thing she was though where the other 3 girls can all be a bit unpredictable and Shelepen is pretty consistent, particularly in the LP.

Eris
04-25-2010, 06:31 PM
Is it bad that I want Anna to compete in seniors next season?
She is too young for that, isn't she?:confused: And I think she won't be able to beat Makarova and Leonova...

But I really want a good future for her, Anna is my favourite Russian skater))

oleada
04-25-2010, 06:32 PM
Crystal skate was this weekend.

Free skating scores
1 Darya MEDVEDEVA
RUS 96.22 53.10 43.12 5.40 5.20 5.40 5.45 5.50 0.00 #10
2 Darya AFANASIEVA
RUS 92.19 49.91 43.28 5.50 5.25 5.45 5.45 5.40 1.00 #11

1 Elena RADIONOVA
RUS 90.54 46.78 43.76 5.40 5.30 5.60 5.60 5.45 0.00 #12
2 Maria SOTCKOVA
RUS 80.88 40.40 40.48 5.05 4.85 5.05 5.20 5.15 0.00 #15
3 Alsu KAYUMOVA
RUS 78.00 40.48 37.52 4.75 4.55 4.75 4.75 4.65 0.00 #13

Video at http://www.justin.tv/fsrussia

Medvedeva had a few stepouts, but was the best overall. Afanasyeva was interesting. She's a bit sloppy but obviously talented. She landed a nice 3T+3T, but fell on a 2A. The quality of her elements wasn't as good as Medvedeva's, IMO, but she's got talent and is perhaps another one to watch out for.

Radionova had mistakes, but nobody matched her, really. She is so fast and seems so confident.

Autumn_girl
04-25-2010, 06:38 PM
Radionova had mistakes, but nobody matched her, really. She is so fast and seems so confident.

And she did 2A-3T and 3Lz! I also saw her did 3T-3T earlier this season, it's hard to believe, she was born in 1999! This girl will be a new skating star some day