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pinky166
04-22-2010, 11:24 PM
What is the age range for ladies to compete at Junior Worlds. Is the youngest 13 and the oldest 18? Thx.

For next year's JW, the ladies must be: 13 by July 1st, 2010 but not yet 19 by July 1, 2010. So you can be 19 and go to JW so long as you turned 19 after July 1.

pinky166
04-22-2010, 11:29 PM
What do people think of Shelepen? Thoughts about whether she will be able to stay among the top? I have very mixed feelings about her, sometimes I find her skating lovely and other times she seems very sloppy. Also I have a feeling puberty may not be so kind to her judging from the length of her legs, she may end up tall and sturdier like Cynthia Phanuef or Carolina Kostner, both of whom struggle with consistency. I'm curious to see how she fares on the SGP, she seems to get docked a bit for PCS even on the junior ranks so I'm wondering if that will continue. Ovcharova has consistently gotten higher PCS than Shelepen this season despite a number of messy skates.

Sylvia
04-22-2010, 11:30 PM
For next year's JW, the ladies must be: 13 by July 1st, 2010 but not yet 19 by July 1, 2010. So you can be 19 and go to JW so long as you turned 19 after July 1.
UNLESS the ISU Council's proposed age rules pass at the ISU Congress in June...

pinky166
04-23-2010, 12:26 AM
UNLESS the ISU Council's proposed age rules pass at the ISU Congress in June...

I hope they don't do that. Poor Adelina missed the cutoff for the JGP this season by 1 day, it would be a shame if she had to wait ANOTHER year to compete on the JGP, same goes for Liza.

loopey
04-23-2010, 12:52 AM
UNLESS the ISU Council's proposed age rules pass at the ISU Congress in June...
And what are they proposing: bumping the low-end up to 14 or 15?

Ziggy
04-23-2010, 03:31 AM
14, I think.

Shelepen needs a personality injection. Her skating is so bland, it's painful.

pinky166
04-23-2010, 04:25 AM
14, I think.

Shelepen needs a personality injection. Her skating is so bland, it's painful.

Agreed. She is all about the jumps, which is why I like Anna so much more, hope she can continue to work on her technique, I don't want her to become the Russian Caroline Zhang :(. Adelina is also so expressive and adorable. Liza is expressive in her exhibition pieces but not so much in her programs.

key65man
04-23-2010, 06:56 AM
I just quickly watched Tuktamysheva's SP from this season and elements were good but her basic skating is quite weak. She has quite shallow edges.

She does use her arms quite a lot but her timing seemed totally off (I'm gonna ask somebody with hearing better than mine about it to corroborate ;)) and the program is quite generic.

Posture and lines could improve. She's piking forwards a lot and shoulders are very slightly rounded. She doesn't extend her movements as well as she could either.

Other than the jumps, I don't get the hype whatsoever.

I agree that Tuktamysheva right now is not so great in many aspects of skating perhaps except jumps. I don’t even find her jumps as precise, clean, and reliable yet.

However, we really need to put the assessment of her skating in a bit better context. First of all, is her speed of world class like Yuna’s or Caro’s? Apparently not. But, her speed is unquestionably excellent for jumps, especially considering her size.

She tends to slow down a bit for elements other than jumps such as spirals (and in the later part of the long program), which is one of the reasons that her ice coverage is not as good as it can be (like Yuna's Arabesque spiral). I assume it is because she does not have good edge work and control yet.

Could she work on them? Absolutely. She can gradually improve them as she seems to be naturally comfortable with speed. In fact, in other LP clips, her edge work and ice coverage are better.

As for musicality, I do not think Liza is going to be another Yuna. Maybe, she does not have a great sense of music. Or, the synchronization issue may arise from the possibility that the choreography is too elaborate and complex for her.

Nonetheless, she articulates so well (for her age) her fingers, wrists, elbows, even shoulders to a degree. She indeed can create lyrical moves with her arms (and, to a lesser degree, the upper body). In my opinion, she is very advanced for her age in that regard. That is why I am a little confused about her artistic disposition. When you watch how she moves with the volume on mute, she can be quite convincing (well, again for her age).

At any rate, a figure skater is not a professional dancer. Yuna, for instance, is an exceptional case regarding musicality and the level of sophistication in artistry (or articulation and elaboration in every move of fingers, wrists, elbows, shoulders, even neck and waist). However, Yuna does not necessarily get higher scores for it than someone who does “reasonably” well in those departments. With more training, I think musicality and artistry will not be hindering factors for Liza.

Regarding posture and extension, it seems they are more or less an issue of flexibility. Liza does not have great flexibility. As she is going to need more muscle in her legs for jumps at the expense of flexibility, it may continue to be a problem for her. However, this is relatively a minor issue affecting spirals and spins, for which other technical aspects such as speed, edges, etc., are judged. Not a critical issue as long as she is willing to work on it.

I find her overall skating quite adequate, to say the least, except musicality and flexibility at this stage of development. With her excellence in jump, she can work on everything else gradually over the long haul.

Ziggy
04-23-2010, 07:48 AM
Yes, she definitely can.

What worries me, however, is the fact Mishin does not seem to pay much attention to anything other than jumps. Plushenko being case in point. :P

So unless he changes his attitude (and he really should have learned from his mistakes after Plushenko losing Olympic gold on PCS and spin levels), I can't see that happening.

Gachinski has pretty much the same problems (only he's not as talented a jumper as Liza ;)). He's so rough around the edges and his programs are so bland.

Marco
04-23-2010, 07:58 AM
In such a promising field I think skating quality only makes sense when you land (at least some of) your jumps. I was rewatching some Sotnikova performances and she fell like 3 to 4 times in both, which makes it moot to discuss her skating qualities. Ditto for Kostner. :yikes:

bek
04-23-2010, 08:16 AM
As for musicality, I do not think Liza is going to be another Yuna. Maybe, she does not have a great sense of music. Or, the synchronization issue may arise from the possibility that the choreography is too elaborate and complex for her.


I actually think Liza has a good sense of music-for her age.. I mean you cannot compare Liza to Yu-na now, you have to look at Yu-na when she was Liza's age. And its not like Yu-na had this hugely sophisticated program at her age.... She had musicality, but she wasn't like she is now....Yu-na had good arms though, as does Liza.

The thing is that I think the main thing at Liza's age is to be given the skaters good basics/ technique. Although I'm sure her skating skills can improve, and I DO worry with Mishin because he focuses so much on jumps. I'm thinking he's getting a better understanding of the system. However she's also only 13. Plushenko when he was younger did skate with a lot of speed and power, and so I'm hoping she will too...

I kind of feel like there are a lot of skaters who at 13 look all wow and have good choregraphy/personality. But the jumping technique and other stuff is not there, and so those people struggle... In contrast I look at people like Kwan, who IMO at 13 was not necessarily the most spectacular to watch ever, but had good foundation, and she turned out well to say the least.

My thing with Shelepen is not that she doesn't have personality, but she comes accross as rather messy....

As for Liza, I preferred Adelina to her last year, but I was really impressed with Liza's short this year in the sense of how she used her arms.. And so I think there's potential there for her to be the full package...

ali_dorate
04-23-2010, 09:06 AM
As for Liza, I wanna know what is the main problem regarding her LP this year.
I love this program so much. It's one of the best Novis ladies LP I've ever seen. I thought it was well choreographed.
It's interesting to know how other people see it.

pinky166
04-23-2010, 04:48 PM
In such a promising field I think skating quality only makes sense when you land (at least some of) your jumps. I was rewatching some Sotnikova performances and she fell like 3 to 4 times in both, which makes it moot to discuss her skating qualities. Ditto for Kostner. :yikes:

Adelina had a big growth spurt this year which is likely why she falls so much. She also needs to stop going for 3lz-3lo and 3s-3lo if she can't land it. On the JGP, she can do well and win events without a 3-3, Kiri doesn't have a 3-3 and won both her events, Kanako only has a 3t-3t which is usually UR that she only does in the SP and won everything on the junior level this season regardless.

I find Polina, Anna, and Adelina all a bit messy in some aspects of their skating but I have to wonder if it's due to growing so fast. All three girls were much tinier last season, and Anna in particular looks like she is starting to grow into a more grown up body type. I think it just takes some time to get adjusted, Adelina and Polina didn't look sloppy last year and that's why I think growth spurts have something to do with it. Mirai last year was a bit sloppy and unpolished as well, these girls are all young and have time to adjust and once they do I think they all have the potential to do very well on the senior ranks.

As for musicality, I don't find Liza musical at all. The only girls who are musical and Adelina and Anna. Adelina has the type of musicality similar to Yuna with facial expressions and arm movements, and is also very balletic. Anna's probably the most musical of all the young Russians but her musicality is different from Yuna, she is very theatrical and her expression is more obvious rather than subtle, she can really handle the upbeat music that many other skater's can't.

pinky166
04-23-2010, 05:55 PM
Shelepen has personality here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJYl2eJZsA0

:lol: love it. she's cute.

oleada
04-23-2010, 07:39 PM
I think Elizaveta is definitely musical; I thought she used the music quite well in the LP at 2008 Russian Nationals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBCYYSGvWD0

I'm not sure if the current team she has is the best at bringing it out, though.