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Marco
04-21-2010, 05:05 AM
Gerboldt has switched to pairs

:eek:

That is news to me. Smart move though.

Ziggy
04-21-2010, 07:56 PM
I'm surprised you all think Tuktamysheva is only strong on jumps. I think she has beautiful presentation and really works with the music. She also has a very light quality over the ice (much like Mao), and her spins are getting better and better.

Skaters aren't supposed to be light over the ice, they are supposed to show deep edges. :P

I just quickly watched Tuktamysheva's SP from this season and elements were good but her basic skating is quite weak. She has quite shallow edges.

She does use her arms quite a lot but her timing seemed totally off (I'm gonna ask somebody with hearing better than mine about it to corroborate ;)) and the program is quite generic.

Posture and lines could improve. She's piking forwards a lot and shoulders are very slightly rounded. She doesn't extend her movements as well as she could either.

Other than the jumps, I don't get the hype whatsoever.


Can you name anybody else except her? Of her age group of course.

Ziggy, I don't think it's high standards, it's wrong standards if we talk about novice and junior ladies:)

Well if we're talking about the whole package, then obviously it's way too early for that.

But if somebody has really strong basics, that creates a lot of potential for the future, to build a fuller package on.

caseyedwards
04-21-2010, 08:22 PM
Jumps are the most objective elements in all of figure skating. If you got them at the age she does-I say more hype!!

bek
04-21-2010, 08:27 PM
Skaters aren't supposed to be light over the ice, they are supposed to show deep edges.

I just quickly watched Tuktamysheva's SP from this season and elements were good but her basic skating is quite weak. She has quite shallow edges.


She moves with a lot of speed though and gets good ice coverage. Those are the reports from those who have seen her live from Goldenskate. I'm sure the deeper edges will come in time.

Ziggy
04-21-2010, 08:32 PM
Jumps are the most objective elements in all of figure skating. If you got them at the age she does-I say more hype!!

They are neither more, nor less objective than anything else.

tkrm7778
04-21-2010, 11:03 PM
It depends which SP you looked at since it was her weak point the whole season. Subjectively I think that Liza's best performances of this season were:

SP at the Cup of Russia Final (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm8aMxcmB-E)
LP at Russian Nationals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts6iGM8oCng)

pinky166
04-22-2010, 12:04 AM
Jumps are the most objective elements in all of figure skating. If you got them at the age she does-I say more hype!!

I guess. I still prefer Anna's skating to Liza's even though Anna's jump technique is not as good and she doesn't do 3-3. If you watch her SP she is in character every second of the music and skates very fast with a lot of energy and enthusiasm, plus she always at least attacks her jumps even if she doesn't always land them or they don't look the prettiest. If she can clean up her technique and learn how to get good GOE on her jumps, she will be unstoppable. Charisma and musicality like that cannot be learned, it is a gift.

Autumn_girl
04-22-2010, 05:08 AM
Charisma and musicality like that cannot be learned, it is a gift.

But it's not enough. And I hope she will fix her jumps and finally do more than one clean FS in the season, because next year it will be really hard to make the team for Junior Worlds when Liza, Adelina and also Zaseeva, Gosviani will be eligible.

pinky166
04-22-2010, 05:23 AM
But it's not enough. And I hope she will fix her jumps and finally do more than one clean FS in the season, because next year it will be really hard to make the team for Junior Worlds when Liza, Adelina and also Zaseeva, Gosviani will be eligible.

True. I hope so too, I love that girl so much, what a performer :). Some of her jump issues may be growth spurt related, she looks like she has grown up a lot this season and that could contribute to the issue. She is very young though, she has time to fix her jumps so I hope she will, and at least now the jumps look better than they did at the beginning of the season - so she is working on it, it will just take more time. Also all her edge takeoffs are right, so that's one more thing she doesn't have to worry about. Who are Zaseeva and Gosviani :eek:? I've never heard of them! More Russian wonderbabies?

Sylvia
04-22-2010, 05:40 AM
Nikol Gosviani's 3rd place Jr. SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vITUMZwSgY) from the Russian Cup final in Tver (early March 2010).

Kristina Zaseeva's 1st place Jr. SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAHe-iF-C1E) from Russian Junior Nationals (early February 2010).

pinky166
04-22-2010, 05:24 PM
Nikol Gosviani's 3rd place Jr. SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vITUMZwSgY) from the Russian Cup final in Tver (early March 2010).

Kristina Zaseeva's 1st place Jr. SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAHe-iF-C1E) from Russian Junior Nationals (early February 2010).

Oh wow, they are both quite good! At this point I'd still say Tuktamysheva, Sotnikova, Ovcharova, and Shelepen are stronger though.

Autumn_girl
04-22-2010, 05:44 PM
Oh wow, they are both quite good! At this point I'd still say Tuktamysheva, Sotnikova, Ovcharova, and Shelepen are stronger though.

I agree. But with juniors you can never be sure, it may change next season. Anna was not even in top 10 at Junior Nationals last year and look at her now, she won SP at JW. Or Polina Agafonova, she didn't qualify to the JGP final and then won Junior Nationals and came 3rd at JW, so let's just keep Kristina and Nikol in mind too :) Both has all triples and Kristina also has 3T-3T (maybe next year she will try 3F-3T or even 3Lz-3T, who knows)

pinky166
04-22-2010, 06:56 PM
I agree. But with juniors you can never be sure, it may change next season. Anna was not even in top 10 at Junior Nationals last year and look at her now, she won SP at JW. Or Polina Agafonova, she didn't qualify to the JGP final and then won Junior Nationals and came 3rd at JW, so let's just keep Kristina and Nikol in mind too :) Both has all triples and Kristina also has 3T-3T (maybe next year she will try 3F-3T or even 3Lz-3T, who knows)

Very true, very true. Anna and Polina A did come out of nowhere a bit so that can certainly happen for the other girls. Anna's total score at Jr. Nationals (106+) last year was less than her LP score (109+) at Jr. Nationals this year, wow :eek:. Polina A was a nice surprise too, there were articles after Jr Worlds that said she was so surprised when she won a medal, she was just excited to be skating with a lot of good skaters and hoped to make the top 10, well, she did a lot better than that!

Kristina and Nichol definitely have potential too, I look forward to seeing them on the JGP in the coming season. Krsitina also looks fairly mature and may not have as many growing pains as some of the others because of it. I'm still hoping Rosa will emerge as a bright star too, she is just so adorable and her skating is just lovely :)

Ziggy
04-22-2010, 08:23 PM
She moves with a lot of speed though and gets good ice coverage. Those are the reports from those who have seen her live from Goldenskate. I'm sure the deeper edges will come in time.

I only watched it on video, but my impression was that ice coverage was poor and speed wasn't that great either. And she is doing loads of (sloppy) progressives and cross-cuts in the program.


It depends which SP you looked at since it was her weak point the whole season. Subjectively I think that Liza's best performances of this season were:

SP at the Cup of Russia Final (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm8aMxcmB-E)

That is the program I looked at.

I showed it to a friend of mine whose hearing (in relation to the music - I'm not sure how to phrase it in English) is way better than mine and here is her opinion:


Well, if it had [anything to do with the music], I have missed those moments. ;) I think I would mark her [around 1.5 on IN].

If Mishin doesn't get her working on choreography and interpretation, he will bring up Ludmila Nelidina number 2. :D

Her jump technique is amazing - I can believe she is going to be landing 3axels and 4toes even.

But she's going to get deservedly marked down on the PCS.

And you'll see by the time she's grown up, she'll get herself some Granny hair done. :D

I personally think that what we're witnessing here is what is called Matthew effect (at least in Polish, no idea how it translates into English ;)).

Because those girls are so extraordinarily talented and are doing so amazingly technically for their age, it means other aspects of their skating either immediately seem better because of this or are simply overlooked because the jumps are so impressive.

loopey
04-22-2010, 10:26 PM
...because next year it will be really hard to make the team for Junior Worlds when Liza, Adelina and also Zaseeva, Gosviani will be eligible.What is the age range for ladies to compete at Junior Worlds. Is the youngest 13 and the oldest 18? Thx.