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Nan
04-28-2010, 04:31 PM
I can't believe anyone thinks any of Johnny's comments measure up to what Evan said.

You may also think that Johnny hung the moon and Evan should be digging ditches and that's fine, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but give it a rest....please. Evan is working with broken toes, a concussion and minimal sleep. He has been about as PC as anyone could possibly be since the Olympics and in all his DWTS interviews and he slips one time talking about Johnny (and yes, I do think it was a slip, not an intentional bash) and he is roasted over the coals.

*I* think Johnny would do anything for fame and glory including sell his beloved mother to the gypsies, but if he did, I'm also think he would find a way to blame Evan for why he had to do it.

iarispiralllyof
04-28-2010, 04:34 PM
All the comments about him not being masculine hahaha. People constantly are making posts that seem to think they are taunting Evan about his not being masculine. And all the "Oh sure he's dating Tanith (or Nastia) comments." There's a "hahaha I know he's really a faggot" undertone that is sickening. This is straight up homophobia. Evan is a figure skater, whatever his sexual orientation, he isn't masculine in the NASCAR mode. Yet there is always a poster ready to make fun of that.

On the school yard that would be considered anti-gay bullying. And it doesn't matter whether the person who is the target of it is gay or straight. It still is.

Do you consider my posts about his vera wang outfits homophobic? I made no comments about his sexuality, and I am not sure if Evan made any claims about being the epitome of manhood - but there is this general consensus that somehow he is being represented as such. And I simply disagree.

However I myself did not poke fun at that in my previous message (about the Vera Wang outfits) I simply said he and Johnny are more similar than they think. I don't think masculine or feminine traits should be degraded. It is what it is. Now if those Johnny fans were painting these feminine traits in a negative manner then I would agree that's offensive, but I can't believe this is the case if they are fans of someone like Johnny.

The only way it could be deemed offensive is because Evan is officially heterosexual (from his own mouth) so it's disrespectful to use stereotypes about masculinity vs. femininity in order to argue otherwise about his sexuality (which many fans do), but I think the big issue here is that "accusing" someone of being a certain orientation shouldn't be offensive to begin with. Straight or gay, why should it matter. But of course it will irk some people.

And I agree - it's figure skating, not football. But even within figure skating Evan is not necessarily the paradigm of masculinity (nothing wrong with that). Brian Orser was more masculine than he is. =/ imo

iarispiralllyof
04-28-2010, 04:37 PM
You may also think that Johnny hung the moon and Evan should be digging ditches and that's fine, we are all entitled to our own opinions, but give it a rest....please. Evan is working with broken toes, a concussion and minimal sleep. He has been about as PC as anyone could possibly be since the Olympics and in all his DWTS interviews and he slips one time talking about Johnny (and yes, I do think it was a slip, not an intentional bash) and he is roasted over the coals.

*I* think Johnny would do anything for fame and glory including sell his beloved mother to the gypsies, but if he did, I'm also think he would find a way to blame Evan for why he had to do it.

You preface your comment with "everyone's entitled to our own opinions" then tell me to give it a rest. How convenient. I even mentioned in my comment that it was all the more disappointing because Evan had been so mature about Plushenko. This is a thread about Johnny, it's relevant. If you don't want to see it, don't read the thread. It's not as if I'm trolling in an Evan thread.

Telling me to give it a rest and then making an accusation even harsher than anyone has ever made about Johnny selling his mother :duh:

iarispiralllyof
04-28-2010, 04:39 PM
and Johnny may have been out of line to even buy in and make public statements about stars on ice and the apparent homophobia, but comments like what Mark Lund made are hurtful and uncalled for. He didn't just create a ruckus over nothing, he obviously does have to deal with some level of hostility within the skating world and it isn't just due to his flamboyant (and some say attention seeking, annoying) persona.

BlueRidge
04-28-2010, 04:40 PM
A lot of my feelings about this have been provoked by the "Tanith is Evan's beard" comments (which I also consider sexist toward Tanith) and the making fun of the very idea that Evan is dating a female.

You can take my reactions with as many grains of salt as you like. I'm 52 and sometimes I'm a little bitter about what it was like to live in a homophobic society when I was young. When I see echos of this past, it upsets me.

I wish people would think about things before they make cheap comments about some of this stuff.

iarispiralllyof
04-28-2010, 04:43 PM
A lot of my feelings about this have been provoked by the "Tanith is Evan's beard" comments (which I also consider sexist toward Tanith) and the making fun of the very idea that Evan is dating a female.

You can take my reactions with as many grains of salt as you like. I'm 52 and sometimes I'm a little bitter about what it was like to live in a homophobic society when I was young. When I see echos of this past, it upsets me.

I wish people would think about things before they make cheap comments about some of this stuff.

Agreed with this. Wasn't really aware of it before now. I don't think it's respectful either and I wouldn't do it. Evan's orientation is his business and he identifies publicly as straight so it would be offensive of fans to go overboard with comments denoting otherwise just because he doesn't fit their ideal of masculinity.

BlueRidge
04-28-2010, 04:43 PM
and Johnny may have been out of line to even buy in and make public statements about stars on ice and the apparent homophobia, but comments like what Mark Lund made are hurtful and uncalled for. He didn't just create a ruckus over nothing.

Johnny has absolutely been hurt by a lot of homophobia (regardless of what his orientation is). He has had to go against the grain. No one should dismiss the reality of that.

He's not in a comfortable place in a society still grappling with homophobia. But he needs to deal with it more constructively than he has recently.

kwanette
04-28-2010, 04:47 PM
Well, to be fair, Stars on Ice was a fall/winter tour during that time so he would have had to stop competing to tour with SOI while he was the national champion. He was on the summer tour, Champions on Ice.

A few eligible skaters did guest appearances with SOI when it was a winter tour. They appeared in between Nationals and Worlds. Michael Weiss appeared in 05 when he was still eligible..Kimmie and Emily...and I believe Evan and Tanith and Ben also made appearances during the winter tour.


The bottom line is SOI doesn't want Johnny...for whatever reason. National titles, medals have nothing to do with it. (That point has been proven in this thread).

made_in_canada
04-28-2010, 04:53 PM
Thank you BlueRidge :respec::respec:

genevieve
04-28-2010, 04:55 PM
was Evan's comment about "the best of the best" the most tactful? No, but it was a pretty mild swipe. But Evan was right on about Johnny whining about not getting selected.

I like both Evan and Johnny - and Johnny's skating style over the years I prefer. But I am totally over Johnny's "outRAGEOUS!!" public persona and have the same beef with him that BlueRidge mentioned. When straight people use gayness as a coy joke it pisses me off; when a (maybe :rolleyes: ) gay person uses straight homophobia to propel their career, it's even worse.

Nan
04-28-2010, 04:56 PM
You preface your comment with "everyone's entitled to our own opinions" then tell me to give it a rest.

What I would like to see "given a rest" by everyone, not just you, is the whole "Johnny is all good, Evan is all evil." It's boring.


Telling me to give it a rest and then making an accusation even harsher than anyone has ever made about Johnny selling his mother :duh:

Over the top example for effect. Worked, didn't it?

TalentedButHumble
04-28-2010, 04:58 PM
If I recall correctly Johnny didn't fire up the comments, it was the media. Johnny simply responded to the implication that he wasn't "family friendly" enough for them.
Then IIRC you're recalling it wrong.

iarispiralllyof
04-28-2010, 04:59 PM
I never bought into that, just disappointed in Evan's recent comments. If Johnny made comments about Tanith being a beard, that's outrageous. But if Johnny's fans claim that Evan's gay accordingly I don't think it's due to homophobia but rather some crazy fantasy of them being a couple lol. Fangirls -_-;;

iarispiralllyof
04-28-2010, 05:01 PM
Then IIRC you're recalling it wrong.

What I meant was Johnny was asked the question at a press conference and responded to it. Subsequently after that if he brought it up he also noted that it wasn't 100 percent of a shock since they'd never invited him in the past either.

iarispiralllyof
04-28-2010, 05:08 PM
I'm just now reading some of Johnny's comments to Evan that are quite mean spirited. Evan seems to have been nice to him up until now.

=/
Seems like they were friendly at one point and then had a falling out. Sad.