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skatemommy
12-25-2009, 01:35 PM
I'm not faulting you skatemommy. No verbal Rubik's Cubes from me. Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas Holley! Please post dance pics soon!

Aceon6
12-25-2009, 01:42 PM
From what Jesper Parnevik has said, and he should know, there was no indication that there were problems in the marriage until this fall. I suspect, like all of us, Elin picked up that something wasn't quite right and started poking and being less tolerant of Tiger. You know that feeling that something is off? She got it. From Jesper's account, she's the kind of person who tells it like it is and has a bit of a temper, certainly not Saint Elin.

canbelto
12-25-2009, 09:15 PM
It doesn't matter if Elin is fugly or the most beautiful woman in the world. It's just like the articles that wondered why Scott Peterson could ever do such a thing to the lovely, sweet Laci. In the end it;s about the cheater, and his own issues, be it with commitment, women, sex, fidelity, or emotional maturity.

Prancer
12-26-2009, 01:44 AM
It doesn't matter if Elin is fugly or the most beautiful woman in the world. It's just like the articles that wondered why Scott Peterson could ever do such a thing to the lovely, sweet Laci. In the end it;s about the cheater, and his own issues, be it with commitment, women, sex, fidelity, or emotional maturity.

Absolutely. But comments like that also tell you a lot about the person who makes them.

Wyliefan
12-26-2009, 03:45 AM
From what Jesper Parnevik has said, and he should know, there was no indication that there were problems in the marriage until this fall. I suspect, like all of us, Elin picked up that something wasn't quite right and started poking and being less tolerant of Tiger. You know that feeling that something is off? She got it. From Jesper's account, she's the kind of person who tells it like it is and has a bit of a temper, certainly not Saint Elin.

By all accounts, even many saints have had tempers. :)

Holley Calmes
12-26-2009, 02:34 PM
And when you give a saint a really good reason to lose his/her temper, the saint just shows their own humanity, I suppose, by taking a driver to husband's face. :lol: I'd think a lot less of Elin if she just sat back and did nothing and let him get away with it. Spinelessness and sainthood are not mutually exclusive. To do nothing borders on victimhood, although I am not advocating physical violence. (I'd personally would have taken the golf clubs to a region of his body further south.)

Aceon6
12-26-2009, 03:01 PM
The next week should be very interesting. In most years, players travel travel to Hawaii with their families for a bit of vacation before the SBS that starts on 1/4. This will be the first opportunity for the Tour Wives (caps, it's an association) players, and caddies to get together since Clubgate. I'll be watching for what's said, or not said.

Needless to say, I suspect most players are getting the "if you even seem to be supporting Tiger, I'll kill you" speech from their wives.

Jenny
12-27-2009, 02:48 PM
This has been my question since everything was just rumors! Does he think that email and text messages are wisps of smoke that just disappear after you send them??? I mean, it's not like he chose "classy" discreet women to have flings with. He chose reality stars and cocktail waitresses who wanted to be actresses. Was he looking to be blasted of that pedestal?

Exactly - I've been saying this all along, and was just discussing this very point with family over the holidays. How could someone so very in control of his game and his professional life and (to date) his public persona be so reckless?

Two potential answers as I see it: one is the god complex - he's Tiger, he's super human, he can get away with things others can't (which is what I think is behind the infidelity of politicians in most cases).

Two is that somewhere inside, he wanted to get caught. He wanted off the Tiger train and didn't know how to stop it, so emotionally, he became more and more reckless. I do maintain that in some ways, part of Tiger is actually a bit relieved now.


I think Tiger's going to have it harder. For some, Vick's conviction and jail time, suspension from the NFL, plus the apology that seems to be heartfelt, put him in the "debt to society paid" category.


I will never forgive Vick. He's scum.

Jenny
12-27-2009, 02:52 PM
Another thought to throw out there - at one family event in the past few days, I asked the questions, "what does Tiger owe Elin, and what does Elin deserve?"

My thinks-of-herself-as-an-ultrafeminist-but-in-reality-is-more-June-Cleaver-than-Gloria-Steinem MIL was adamant that Elin should take the kids to Sweden and Tiger should not be able to see them for five years. Her logic is that he's done severe damage to the kids by causing their mother stress, including during pregnancy, and that he cannot be anywhere near them during this critical time in their development.

I'd be interested to hear other views on this opinion.

skatemommy
12-27-2009, 02:57 PM
Another thought to throw out there - at one family event in the past few days, I asked the questions, "what does Tiger owe Elin, and what does Elin deserve?"

My thinks-of-herself-as-an-ultrafeminist-but-in-reality-is-more-June-Cleaver-than-Gloria-Steinem MIL was adamant that Elin should take the kids to Sweden and Tiger should not be able to see them for five years. Her logic is that he's done severe damage to the kids by causing their mother stress, including during pregnancy, and that he cannot be anywhere near them during this critical time in their development.

I'd be interested to hear other views on this opinion.

A friend of mine was recently widowed with small children. They cry out for their daddy... I don't think it would be best (JMO).

Lacey
12-27-2009, 03:28 PM
My thinks-of-herself-as-an-ultrafeminist-but-in-reality-is-more-June-Cleaver-than-Gloria-Steinem MIL was adamant that Elin should take the kids to Sweden and Tiger should not be able to see them for five years. Her logic is that he's done severe damage to the kids by causing their mother stress, including during pregnancy, and that he cannot be anywhere near them during this critical time in their development.

I missed who said Elin should take kids to Sweden for five years, MIL?

I was thinking how if they are apart, one or both must be having a very sad Christmas. He was stupid and very very bad, but he's not a criminal. The non-residential parent should have still had visitation privileges, even this year. No matter how bad he has been, the kids and the parents should be able to see each other, if only for a while, on holidays. We don't know what is going on behind the scenes, maybe it's too early for court decisions, but I am surprised that he didn't get her there over the separation issue. I am not sure if being so far away in Sweden is a good idea, not just for t his year but forever, if that's where they're going. I can't imagine midweek visitation. But he can affort jets, so maybe it's possible. But holidays should be shared. OTOH if he just wanted to be away on a boat somewhere playing cards with his boyfriends, ya sure, well, then...grrr.

I have a friend with adult children. She did Thanksgiving, their dad did Christmas. She barely made it through latter holiday.

WindSpirit
12-27-2009, 04:02 PM
My thinks-of-herself-as-an-ultrafeminist-but-in-reality-is-more-June-Cleaver-than-Gloria-Steinem MIL was adamant that Elin should take the kids to Sweden and Tiger should not be able to see them for five years. Her logic is that he's done severe damage to the kids by causing their mother stress, including during pregnancy, and that he cannot be anywhere near them during this critical time in their development.

I'd be interested to hear other views on this opinion. In my opinion, unless the other parent (be it the mother or the father) is dangerous to their children (on drugs, violent, criminal, etc.) or is just a plain horrible person (really, really bad in general; someone you would not want to expose your kids to), they should be in their children's lives. I'm very adamant about adults trying to resolve things between themselves without putting kids in the middle. And using kids to get back at the other person is just plain vile, IMO. Hopefully Elin won't be one of those people.

I've had friends without fathers, I've dated men without fathers. In all of them there was such a horrible, painful void that could never be fulfilled, even though they were generally happy and successful. Having seen that, having experienced that, if I ever had kids and things didn't work out with their father, unless he was any of the things I mentioned above, I would try my hardest to get past our own differences and let my kids have him in their lives. And if that would not be possible, I would try not to poison their minds with my own bad feelings toward him. As happened with my friend in college. Her mother divorced her father when he became a hardcore alcoholic (he could not be helped and eventually died) But she did more than that. She tried to poison my friend's mind with her own hate for years. And when my friend was telling me about all those bad things her mother told her about him, I could see she didn't really want to hate him, she wanted to love him.

Tiger might be a cheater, a sex addict, a liar, but that doesn't mean he can't be a good father. If I were in Elin's situation, I'd probably want to get divorced, but I would try to get over my own hurt to allow him to be there for his kids. Marriages may not last, but parenthood is forever.

pat c
12-27-2009, 04:21 PM
Another thought to throw out there - at one family event in the past few days, I asked the questions, "what does Tiger owe Elin, and what does Elin deserve?"

My thinks-of-herself-as-an-ultrafeminist-but-in-reality-is-more-June-Cleaver-than-Gloria-Steinem MIL was adamant that Elin should take the kids to Sweden and Tiger should not be able to see them for five years. Her logic is that he's done severe damage to the kids by causing their mother stress, including during pregnancy, and that he cannot be anywhere near them during this critical time in their development.

I'd be interested to hear other views on this opinion.

What came first, the marriage or the children? So if they separate it's just the marriage that's over, not their relationship with their children, right? ;)

Tiger is not an axe murderer. He seems to be a loser in the marriage department, but that doesn't mean he can't or doesn't love his children. I believe you can not spoil children by loving them too much. On that basis, even tho The Wood's marriage is probably over, that doesn't mean that both shouldn't be around for their kids. And at this stage of the game, with all the f-up's Tiger has done, his kids are probably the only people on this planet that love him for who he is, not what he can do. (shrug)

And both Elin and Tiger should be working together to protect and love their children. Whatever acrimony exists between them, deal with it between yourselves. Do not use your kids as hostages.

marbri
12-27-2009, 06:47 PM
I think in this particular situation she should have every right to move back to Sweden with those children. He has turned their private lifes into late-night talk show punch lines and she will never get peace from paparazzi if she stays in America.

He should get visitation though and I think they need to work out some arrangement when he does see them but I think she needs to be in friendly territory with family and friends nearby. That in turn will be good for the children as she'll likely be more able and open to finding a peaceful settlement with Tiger regarding the children and visitations and moving past her animosity. Trap her inside a mansion in America and she'll become isolated and bitter and noone wins, least of all her children.

AYS
12-27-2009, 11:59 PM
My thinks-of-herself-as-an-ultrafeminist-but-in-reality-is-more-June-Cleaver-than-Gloria-Steinem MIL was adamant that Elin should take the kids to Sweden and Tiger should not be able to see them for five years. Her logic is that he's done severe damage to the kids by causing their mother stress, including during pregnancy, and that he cannot be anywhere near them during this critical time in their development.

I'd be interested to hear other views on this opinion.
I hope you don't need people on an internet board to tell you how fcuked up a viewpoint that is.