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judgejudy27
08-08-2010, 09:47 AM
But we are talking about 8 tenths for that vault alone. An well Shawn's issues on floor were quite predictable as were her issues on beam, and she wasn't that screwed on bars either.

To be quite frank I'll say this. I still don't understand how you can deny Miller as the best USA girl ever when Miller was competitive against the Soviets by arguing that she won one weak world championships. But then talk about Shawn being unbeatable in 2007. The field in 2007 was so weak that two girls Ferrari and Barbosa medaled in the All Around with freakin falls.

1993 and 1994 were both weak World Championships and they are the two Miller won. I only specifically detailed that 93 was absolutely the worst ever, but 1994 was also quite weak. Are you going to say there was some Soviet machine at these 2 Worlds, LOL! The most impressive overall meet Miller had vs a fairly strong field was the 92 Olympics but she managed no golds there.

You talk about Miller's era being a strong one but I will repeat:

1. If it is a strong era how did Lavinia Milosovici became one of the only women in history to win an World or Olympic Gold on all 4 pieces of apparatus. And make event finals on all 4 pieces many times in a row. And also medal in virtually every major AA (and would have won atleast a couple of them without some silly small mistakes). If you had never seen her gymnastics you would think she was the new Silivas or Commaneci hearing her career stats achieved in this era.

2. If it is such a strong era how did Gina Boregean win 20 Worlds or Olympic medals.

3. If it is such a strong era how was Dawes leading a major World or Olympic AA competition 3 times. And she would have won atleast 2 of those and maybe all 3 without falling. I love Dawes but seriously.


The thing about the 2007 field is Shawn would have won even if everyone hit. And IIRC that is even with some of the other girls having slightly higher combined A scores than her, but Shawn would have still won without their mistakes since he execution was so superb across every event it would have overcame. Gymnasts medalling in the AA with falls is a product of the scoring system more than anything. If the current scoring system was in place Miller could have had 3 falls and won the 1993 AA title probably given the field that year.

judgejudy27
08-08-2010, 09:53 AM
But to call Shawn the best US gymnast ever is ridiculous. I wouldn't even say Nastia is that either.

Shawn probably isnt the best U.S gymnast ever now but if she wins the AA in London she certainly will be. Any American who wins both the World and Olympic AA, has a long career, and has won multiple event titles should be considered the greatest ever, as no American past has matched all those things in a combined record.

Nastia you could actually make a case as the greatest U.S gymnast ever already but I think Shawn is capable of surpassing her especialy if she wins the AA in London.

bek
08-08-2010, 03:49 PM
1993 and 1994 were both weak World Championships and they are the two Miller won. I only specifically detailed that 93 was absolutely the worst ever, but 1994 was also quite weak. Are you going to say there was some Soviet machine at these 2 Worlds, LOL! The most impressive overall meet Miller had vs a fairly strong field was the 92 Olympics but she managed no golds there.

You talk about Miller's era being a strong one but I will repeat:

1. If it is a strong era how did Lavinia Milosovici became one of the only women in history to win an World or Olympic Gold on all 4 pieces of apparatus. And make event finals on all 4 pieces many times in a row. And also medal in virtually every major AA (and would have won atleast a couple of them without some silly small mistakes). If you had never seen her gymnastics you would think she was the new Silivas or Commaneci hearing her career stats achieved in this era.

2. If it is such a strong era how did Gina Boregean win 20 Worlds or Olympic medals.

3. If it is such a strong era how was Dawes leading a major World or Olympic AA competition 3 times. And she would have won atleast 2 of those and maybe all 3 without falling. I love Dawes but seriously.


The thing about the 2007 field is Shawn would have won even if everyone hit. And IIRC that is even with some of the other girls having slightly higher combined A scores than her, but Shawn would have still won without their mistakes since he execution was so superb across every event it would have overcame. Gymnasts medalling in the AA with falls is a product of the scoring system more than anything. If the current scoring system was in place Miller could have had 3 falls and won the 1993 AA title probably given the field that year.
The fact that Miller got all of those medals in 1992 shows what a good gymnast she was.

I wasn't saying that 1993 was the strongest field ever, but I'd love for you to explain to me why Shawn's era WAS a strong era of gymnastics. My issue for you is your denyig Miller's achievements based on being from a weak era, but praising Shawn's when Shawn's era was quite weak.

I mean lets take a look at that quad. Once Memmel and Liukin got injured in 2006. You had Vanessa Ferrari winning the all around with a fall! And Jana Bieger, yes Jana Bieger winning the All Around silver medal.

Yes based on where everyone was at, Shawn would have won in 2007 if everyone hit. But once again would she have beaten a pre injury 2006 Nastia, 2008 suggests that might not have happened. Heck Shawn might have had a tough time beating a 2006 prior to injury Memmel without her Amanar.

Neither Shawn or Nastia were at their best unbeatable against truly great gymnasts. Both to me benefited from weak eras. Nastia is a lovely gymnast but she was a bit of a code whore and IMO yes weak on vault. Nastia may be the one with the AA gold in her family, but there's no doubt in my mind that her father was the more accomplished gymnast. He competed in a much tougher era. I love Yilin but I have to say the same for her as Nastia.
Shawn had artistry issues and yes was fairly weak on bars in comparision to a lot of the other top all arounders. (Yilin, Ferrari, Memmel, Semenova, Liukin, Nistor, Jiang Yuyuan (heck maybe even Barbosa) were all at their best better than Shawn on bars.

Take young Komova she has the potential to be better than Nastia or Shawn have ever been. This is a girl who is incredible on bars, and also is starting to do Amanars. On beam she has able to do the type of acrobatic skills that Liukin could have only dreamed of doing, while displaying the type of grace Shawn could only dream of having. She can tumble too.

Young Grishina needs some upgrading, but on beam you have a very similar thing. Wieber's Amanar is better than Shawn's and she can do double/doubles of floor too. And I was impressed with Wieber's floor routine. Miller yes benefited of course from weak 1993 and 1994 but the fact that she got all of those medals in 1992 was impressive. Sure Miller wasn't competiting against a Silvas or a Boginskaya but neither was Shawn or Nastia.

millyskate
08-08-2010, 05:45 PM
To break from the dead horses, what about this up and coming uk gymnast?
She's a bit of a youtube star already. Catherine Lyons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhL7VRmtASY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9wjmlSVrZs

I love that in the UK at the moment there are loads of clubs with good gymnasts. It seems their club support policy has really paid off.

The national squads for the year have been named:
http://www.british-gymnastics.org/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1472:imogen-cairns-and-marissa-king-beyond-expectations-&catid=51:womens-artistic&Itemid=83

BigB08822
08-08-2010, 07:15 PM
What is going on in the 2nd video of Catherine Lyons after her floor exercise? She is just doing a exercise in scales and handstands. I have never seen this before, is this normal in the lower level competitions?

millyskate
08-08-2010, 07:28 PM
What is going on in the 2nd video of Catherine Lyons after her floor exercise? She is just doing a exercise in scales and handstands. I have never seen this before, is this normal in the lower level competitions?

Its's called "range and conditioning", and in the UK, they have it all through the levels. I've even seen some espoirs doing some, I think it stops at junior.

I wish they'd include some turns in the r&c routines, because that's a major weakness for all UK gymnasts!

HisWeirness
08-09-2010, 02:47 AM
VISA Championships, Hartford, CT (http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/pages/events/2010/vc/index.html)
Ladies: Saturday, August 14, 8 p.m. – 10 p.m. NBC (LIVE, HD)
Men: Sunday, August 15, 2:30 p.m. – 4 p.m. NBC (tape, HD)

Commentators: Al Trautwig, Tim Daggett, Elfi Schlegel, Andrea Joyce


Looking at the NBC Sports TV schedule today it looks like Universal Sports TV will be showing live the first part of the WAG competition and the second part of the MAG competition. :cheer:

Universal Sports TV (all times Eastern)
THURSDAY, AUGUST 12
7 p.m. – 9 p.m. WOMEN’S GYMNASTICS PT. 1 (LIVE)

FRIDAY, AUGUST 13
7 p.m. – 10 p.m. MEN’S GYMNASTICS PT. 1 2 (LIVE)
(Second part of MAG comp is on Friday evening (http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/pages/events/2010/vc/schedule.html), NBC is wrong that this is part 1. The Friday live coverage will probably make up some of the Sunday NBC taped MAG coverage)
Universal Sports TV is also going to have a live, half-hour pre and post-show (http://www.universalsports.com/tv-listings/sport=GS/index.html) called "Around the Gym" on Thursday and Friday hosted by Nastia Liukin and John Roethlisberger. There is also a post-show on Saturday following the NBC live coverage of the final segment of the WAG competition.

Thursday: 6:30 - 7:00pm Pre-show
9:00 - 9:30 pm Post-show

Friday: 6:30 - 7:00pm Pre-show
10:00 - 10:30 pm Post-show

Saturday: 10:00 - 10:30 pm Post-show (no pre-show, this show is only listed on TV sites like tvguide.com and not on Universal's own TV program guide (http://www.universalsports.com/tv-listings/sport=GS/index.html)).

BigB08822
08-09-2010, 03:32 AM
I hope Universal Sports puts this online LIVE as well, that is the only way I will be able to watch.

chipso1
08-09-2010, 05:23 PM
Anybody have predictions for the Visa Championships this week? :)

Here's mine:

Senior WAG AA:
1. Mattie Larson (she looked very strong at Classics, minus a flukey fall off beam)
2. Rebecca Bross (her lack of mental toughness and nagging injuries could be significant factors)
3. Bridget Sloan (her ankle does not seem to be healing all that well)
4. Alexandra Raisman (aside from Classics, she's been incredibly consistent all season)
5. Mackenzie Caquatto (has the potential to place much higher, but I don't completely trust her mental focus)
6. Cassie Whitcomb (^ditto)

Vault: 1. Sacramone
Bars: 1. Bross, 2. Caquatto, 3. Sloan
Beam: 1. Sacramone, 2. Bross, 3. Larson
Floor: 1. Larson, 2. Bross, 3. Hunter

Junior WAG AA:
1. Jordyn Wieber
2. Katelyn Ohashi
3. Kyla Ross
4. McKayla Maroney
5. Sabrina Vega
6. Lexie Priessman/Gabby Douglas

Vault: hard to predict when so many girls have such high SVs!
Bars: 1. Wieber, 2. Ohashi, 3. Ross
Beam: 1. Wieber, 2. Ohashi, 3. Ross/Douglas
Floor: 1. Wieber, 2. Ohashi, 3. Vega/Maroney/Ross

Could juniors be the "Wieber-Ohashi Show?" :shuffle:

HisWeirness
08-09-2010, 05:59 PM
I hope Universal Sports puts this online LIVE as well, that is the only way I will be able to watch.
I don't see any mention of having the pre-post shows online (just TV), but this page:

http://www.universalsports.com/news/article/newsid=485979.html#2010+u+s+championships

should be where to look for any video postings/news from Universal Sports.

bek
08-09-2010, 06:45 PM
1. Mattie Larson (she looked very strong at Classics, minus a flukey fall off beam)
2. Rebecca Bross (her lack of mental toughness and nagging injuries could be significant factors)

I'm not sure I see the above happening. People forget that Becca was off for an entire season last year, and she messed up several events at Nationals. While Becca still has some consistency issues, she's a lot more consistent this year. I can see her like Pac Rim only having one real mess up. And I think Bross has enough difficulty over Larson to handle one mess up.

Besides I"m not sure Larson has the political support Bross and Sloan had.

Coco
08-09-2010, 06:59 PM
Anybody have predictions for the Visa Championships this week? :)

Here's mine:

...

Junior WAG AA:
1. Jordyn Wieber
2. Katelyn Ohashi
3. Kyla Ross
4. McKayla Maroney
5. Sabrina Vega
6. Lexie Priessman/Gabby Douglas


I LOVE Gabby Douglas. I hope she is one of those gymnasts who steadily comes on strong so that by the time she's a senior, she's a super strong AAer who CAN'T be denied a spot in London!

chipso1
08-09-2010, 07:10 PM
I'm not sure I see the above happening. People forget that Becca was off for an entire season last year, and she messed up several events at Nationals.

Nope, I didn't forget.


While Becca still has some consistency issues, she's a lot more consistent this year. I can see her like Pac Rim only having one real mess up. And I think Bross has enough difficulty over Larson to handle one mess up.

If we go by the SVs they've been getting all year, she has a 1.5 D-score advantage over Larson. This isn't a whole lot...basically one fall or one missed connection away. Larson has only competed AA once this season, and I think we'll probably see her up the difficulty a bit on both beam and floor (vs. what she did at Classics).

Larson will also garner higher execution scores than Rebecca, most notably on vault and floor, and likely even a little on beam.


Besides I"m not sure Larson has the political support Bross and Sloan had.

I don't really agree with this. Martha loves Mattie, and showered her with international assignments last season before she broke her foot. Mattie was a solid competitor for the U.S. on their European tour in spring 2009. Becca and Bridget are injured while Mattie is finally healthy again (*knock on wood*) and seems to be gaining confidence. She looked fantastic at Classics, though not in peak form yet (which is good). I think she'll look even stronger this week, IMO.

bek
08-09-2010, 08:01 PM
Marta loves Mattie but she's probably not sure Mattie's completely needed on the team. Becca is our best bar worker and when she hits our best beam worker, so Becca is absolutely 100% needed. But if lets say Kytra were to get the Amanar down and Raisman had it down., would it be really smarter to take Mattie than? Or would a team of
Bross
Sacramone
Raisman
Kytra
Sloan
Mac
make the most sense in terms of scoring potential for the USA. Fact is it probably would.

I'm not so sure about that one. Having Mattie be National champion makes her impossible to take off the team. So politics will be with Bross because Bross is definetly on the team just like she and Sloan were definetly on the team last year.


If we go by the SVs they've been getting all year, she has a 1.5 D-score advantage over Larson. This isn't a whole lot...basically one fall or one missed connection away. Larson has only competed AA once this season, and I think we'll probably see her up the difficulty a bit on both beam and floor (vs. what she did at Classics).

Bross is highly likely to get a much bigger score than Mattie on beam and on bars if she hits. Floor and vault will be closer.

Kiss My 1040
08-09-2010, 08:16 PM
I doubt Raisman is going to have an amanar