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chipso1
08-06-2010, 04:56 PM
I wonder if Johnson can be as good as she was "before"? Also, is Liukin coming back?

As much as I love Shawn, I don't think her comeback is going to be successful. :( I would love to be wrong, though.

Liukin has said she will resume serious training this winter. I assume she'll only be training bars and beam.

judgejudy27
08-06-2010, 05:23 PM
Shawn will win the AA in London and cement her place as the greatest American gymnast in history.

bek
08-06-2010, 05:43 PM
Shawn will win the AA in London and cement her place as the greatest American gymnast in history.

If Shawn couldn't beat Nastia at the Olympics, she'll have a very difficult time beating Komova. Not to mention the other people coming up. And the best US gymnast is still IMO Miller.

Coco
08-06-2010, 05:51 PM
The changes in how E scores are evaluated does not bode well for Shawn. AT ALL.

Random question - I can't decide if the following beam dismount sequence would be tacky or cool:

standing a ~5 feet from the end of the beam, forward aerial to scale (D+A for .1 CV), "fall" out of the scale into a handsfree forward roll to end of beam, stand up and punch into forward double twisting layout dismount.

I think I like it :) I'm bored with round-off, 5/2 twist dismounts!

Loves_Shizuka
08-06-2010, 05:51 PM
I also vote for Shannon in that poll.

judgejudy27
08-06-2010, 06:34 PM
If Shawn couldn't beat Nastia at the Olympics, she'll have a very difficult time beating Komova. Not to mention the other people coming up. And the best US gymnast is still IMO Miller.

The 93 Worlds where Miller won half of her career (3 out of 6) individual golds was the worst field in history IMO. My eyes bleed looking back at those Worlds (not that I endure myself to that torture often). And the 94 Worlds where she won 2 of the remaining 3 wasnt much better. The 92 Olympics and to a lesser degree the 96 Olympics where Miller excelled at were pretty deep and strong fields though. Still I dont get all this talk about Miller being in such a tough era. An era that allows Lavinia Milosovici to win a World or Olympic gold on every event, qualify for all 4 event finals 3 at Worlds and Olympics 3 years in a row (would have been 4 had she not fallen on bars in team optionals at the 91 Worlds), and to medal in virtually every all around event is not some insanely great generation of gymnasts. An era that allowed Gina Boregean to win 20 World or Olympic medals, and win both an Olympic medal and World title on beam with the most basic code whoreing routine. An era that allowed Dominique Dawes and her suspect form to lead a World or Olympic AA 3 different times.

As much as I like Shawn I do prefer Miller's gymnastics. It is more stylish and beautiful, but also combined with near perfect form and technique most times, and better constructed routines. However I think Shawn's would probably be better scoring if they met in their primes. Nastia's probably as well. Of course hard to tell when all 3 are from such vastly different eras and the difficulty demands are totally different.

Any American that wins both the World and Olympic AA and has some major event golds to go with it instantly becomes the greatest ever though IMO. Of course Shawn has all of that except the Olympic AA, the one thing Miller never won either.

chipso1
08-06-2010, 06:55 PM
Shawn will win the AA in London and cement her place as the greatest American gymnast in history.

Look, I love Shawn too, but this is ridiculous. First, who's to say Shawn will even make the team with only 5 members going? Her weakness is the U.S. team's weakness (bars), and I'm not entirely confident that she'll be able to get her Amanar back.

Second, Komova and Grishina will likely be duking it out for the AA title, along with Jordyn Wieber who, IMO, is more of an AA threat than Shawn would be. Jordyn's Amanar is better than Shawn's was (i.e., fully rotated), her bars have improved tremendously, she's just as good on beam (and her standing full is better), and her floor exercise is very competitive, too.

danafan
08-06-2010, 06:56 PM
The changes in how E scores are evaluated does not bode well for Shawn. AT ALL.


Which changes to E score evaluation are you referring to?

danafan
08-06-2010, 06:57 PM
I'd love to see if Wieber could add a double-double on floor, but even without it, she's very competitive for the gold medal.

Wieber did the double-double on floor at the Cover Girl Classic a couple of weeks ago.

chipso1
08-06-2010, 06:59 PM
Wieber did the double-double on floor at the Cover Girl Classic a couple of weeks ago.

You're right. :o I just realized that and edited my post a minute ago. I kinda forgot about Classics for a minute and was thinking about the Pac Rim Championships where she wasn't allowed to do it. Thanks!!

Coco
08-06-2010, 07:02 PM
Which changes to E score evaluation are you referring to?

Judges are actually taking more deductions now. It's not a change in the rules so much as it is a change in how they are applied.

I don't think her 2008 Amanar would score as well now, for instance.

LKR
08-06-2010, 07:29 PM
I think it's actually the D-score changes that really hurt Shawn. Not being able to rack up her routines with acrobatic skills on beam and floor will greatly impede her, as she won't have as much room to offset her relatively weak dance elements and artistry.

Coco
08-06-2010, 07:53 PM
I think it's actually the D-score changes that really hurt Shawn. Not being able to rack up her routines with acrobatic skills on beam and floor will greatly impede her, as she won't have as much room to offset her relatively weak dance elements and artistry.

She won't be able to count some "C" skills, but if she gets her E/F/G skills back, I think it'll be a wash relative to other gymnasts. I think she was even counting a B in her 2008 UB routine.

Even if she did the exact same routines from 2008, minus a few lower rated skills, I think her E scores would be lower because that is the trend.

ETA: On FX she had 3 "C" dance elements, which WAS pretty much the maximum since there are so few D dance elements on fx in the '08 code. I agree with you that she is weak there, but the weakness is in the execution of high value elements. That's why I'm harping on the E score issue.

On Beam, your argument makes more sense as there are several D rated dance elements to chose from, but iirc she's never competed anything past a C, save for her switch-ring (E). If she can get the switch ring back, she'll still have 2 "C" elements, so her total from dance elements will be 1.1, which isn't too shabby. I think the highest 3 dance elements possible is 1.5, in theory. And if she can upgrade her switch 1/4 to a switch 1/2, there's another .1.

ETA2 - I've lost my mind, she never did a switch ring on beam - or did she?

judgejudy27
08-06-2010, 08:06 PM
Look, I love Shawn too, but this is ridiculous. First, who's to say Shawn will even make the team with only 5 members going? Her weakness is the U.S. team's weakness (bars), and I'm not entirely confident that she'll be able to get her Amanar back.

Second, Komova and Grishina will likely be duking it out for the AA title, along with Jordyn Wieber who, IMO, is more of an AA threat than Shawn would be. Jordyn's Amanar is better than Shawn's was (i.e., fully rotated), her bars have improved tremendously, she's just as good on beam (and her standing full is better), and her floor exercise is very competitive, too.

We will see. Never count out Shawn. The 2007 Worlds showed how unbeatable she was. She would have won over everyone even if everyone else had hit.

Shawn's Amanar in Beijing got the same score as the great Cheng Fei's Amanar in team finals, so it obviously was considered strong.

bek
08-06-2010, 09:07 PM
We will see. Never count out Shawn. The 2007 Worlds showed how unbeatable she was. She would have won over everyone even if everyone else had hit.



And you want to call Miller's 1993 field weak. Shawn wasn't exactly competiting against a strong field. Nastia her biggest competition was coming back from a major injury and wasn't nearly as strong as she was pre injury in 2006 and in 2008. Barbosa is a headcase, Ferrari never goes 4/4 and Nistor is messy. The fact is Shawn improved in 2008 but nearly lost the silver medal. Amazed that you could call 1993 weak but say that the field Shawn and frankly Nastia in 2008 was facing was strong. To be quite frank I think the all around field has been very weak lately and it seems to be finally getting stronger now.