PDA

View Full Version : Gymnastics news



Pages : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67

Dr.Siouxs
02-27-2010, 04:18 AM
Cheating is cheating, the medal should be stripped. .

What about Marinescu's and Gogean's? Should the 1996 Romanian team give back their bronze now? Their ages were falsified too, the only difference is that no one has yet filed a complaint..


What is sad is that China has clearly learned how to cheat even better....
They found a way to do it and make it work.

Which is?

BigB08822
02-27-2010, 05:58 AM
What about Marinescu's and Gogean's? Should the 1996 Romanian team give back their bronze now? Their ages were falsified too, the only difference is that no one has yet filed a complaint..



Which is?

Yes, the medals should be stripped if they cheated. Why hasn't anyone filed a complaint if it is common knowledge? If none of those who competed care enough then I guess, oh well? I would be complaining! Who filed the complaint on the 2000 Chinese team?

As for how the 2008 team got away with it, how should I know? Those girls were not all of age, it was as clear as day.

Beefcake
02-27-2010, 07:31 AM
:respec: Right on! I commented on the special thread on this subject, so will only add

Heck yes, I look forward to the Beijing ridiculousness leaking out like some spoiled wine ... might not happen for a while, but it will happen someday.

So siouxie ... cheaters should be able to keep their medals if they were stylish and/or if the rules aren't agreeable to fans? :yikes: That would be some kind of precedent to set!

Dr.Siouxs
02-27-2010, 10:07 AM
So siouxie ... cheaters should be able to keep their medals if they were stylish and/or if the rules aren't agreeable to fans? :yikes:

So beefie...it's an extreme solution to a relatively minor infringement. :yawn: Get over it.


That would be some kind of precedent to set!

Are you suggesting this is a new precedent? :lol: As long as there's been age limits, there's been athletes breaking them. Even the very top tier athletes like Daniela Silivias have gone through age falsification. Most of these athletes still have their medals because people have accepted it, tolerated it, and gotten over it. ;)

With that said, of I think course all rules within a sport must be respected. But rather than punishing these poor athletes so long after the fact (who never had a say in it anyway), punish the federation. If they have repeatedly broken the rules of the game, ban them from the game.

LuckyCharm
02-27-2010, 05:49 PM
What about Marinescu's and Gogean's? Should the 1996 Romanian team give back their bronze now? Their ages were falsified too, the only difference is that no one has yet filed a complaint..

I've never heard of this. Details, please?:confused:

LuckyCharm
02-27-2010, 05:57 PM
I've never heard of this. Details, please?:confused:

Never mind. Just looked it up. I don't know how I missed that, especially considering I'm one of the few Gogean ubers.:shuffle:

BigB08822
02-27-2010, 07:46 PM
So beefie...it's an extreme solution to a relatively minor infringement. :yawn: Get over it.

MINOR infringement? They cheated on the biggest platform possible, the Olympics. Minor my azz.



With that said, of I think course all rules within a sport must be respected. But rather than punishing these poor athletes so long after the fact (who never had a say in it anyway), punish the federation. If they have repeatedly broken the rules of the game, ban them from the game.

So you say don't punish the athletes who had no say in it then you suggest we ban the federation from the game. So you suggest we punish the current athletes who truly had NOTHING to do with it by telling them they can't compete after training their whole lives because of something the federation did 10 years or more before? :rolleyes:

pollyanna
02-27-2010, 10:33 PM
Sadly, it's been going on for decades. When I first saw a photo of 1981 World Champ Olga Bicherova (it was on the cover of a 1981 IG magazine), I couldn't believe she was really 15. Well she wasn't. She was 12.

The list includes:

Kim Gwang Suk (North Korea): Kim, the 1991 World Champion on the uneven bars. The case of Kim Gwang Suk is the only one to receive any sort of penalty or disciplinary action from the FIG, who barred the North Korean women's team from the World Championships in 1993. The North Korean Gymnastics Federation submitted inconsistent dates of birth for Kim at various competitions, claiming that she was 15 for three consecutive years.

Lavinia Agache (Romania): Agache competed at the 1981 World Championships at the age of 13.

Olga Bicherova (Soviet Union): 1981 World Champion in the all-around event, was introduced at an early 1981 meet as a 12-year-old, but was claimed to have been born in 1966 at the 1981 World Championships later in the same year.

Gina Gogean (Romania): Gogean competed in the 1991 World Championships and 1992 Olympics with a passport with a 1977 birth year. However, in 2002 her original birth certificate was uncovered by the media, revealing she had been born in 1978.

Alexandra Marinescu (Romania): Marinescu, a World and team Olympic medalist in the mid-1990s, had her birth year advanced from 1982 to 1981 in order to be eligible for the 1995 World Championships and 1996 Olympic Games.

Olga Mostepanova (Soviet Union): Mostepanova, who competed at the 1983 and 1985 World Championships, has been reported as having 1968 and 1969 birth dates, but has stated that she was actually born in 1970.

Daniela Silivaş (Romania): Silivaş, a multiple World and Olympic gold medalist, competed as a junior until 1985, when her birth year was changed from 1972 to 1970. She went on to compete at the 1985 World Championships at the age of 13. Silivaş revealed the falsification to the media in 2002.

And now Dong Fangxiao.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_falsification_in_gymnastics#Age_falsification


Now why didn't we falsify the age of Nastia Liukin in 2004? If we had, she might have been 2-time Olympic all around champion. ;)

Dr.Siouxs
02-27-2010, 11:33 PM
So you say don't punish the athletes who had no say in it then you suggest we ban the federation from the game. So you suggest we punish the current athletes who truly had NOTHING to do with it by telling them they can't compete after training their whole lives because of something the federation did 10 years or more before? :rolleyes:

Grappling at straws, eh? :lol: But absolutely. According to you, China also certainly falsified the ages of the 2008 team--so their "crime" was more recent than ten years ago, right? ;) In fact, IIRC, suspected gymnasts like Deng Linlin and He Kexin have competed as recently as this year.

But these athletes would not have "wasted their whole lives", as you say, if China were banned--China has many prestigious domestic competitions such as the Chinese National Games and Provincial championships and would be free to participate in any of the many international meets not governed by the IGF (Asian games, etc). Banning their federation would obviously not kill the sport in China but only bar them from the international events whose rules they've refused to comply with anyway.

So yes, let the other members of the 2000 team keep their medals and sanction China (and if it's proven that the 2008 team had been falsified, ban their ass). Then we won't have anonymous goofs such as yourself and Beefcake throwing hissy fits. :lol:

BigB08822
02-28-2010, 12:02 AM
The only goof is someone who calls cheating at the Olympics a "minor infringement" and then completely contradicts themselves with their insane idea of punishing the innocent. I'm trying to figure out where you are coming from with these weird arguments but it is probably a complete waste of my time, I'll just go back to "grappling at straws," whatever that means.

Dr.Siouxs
02-28-2010, 12:08 AM
The only goof is someone who calls cheating at the Olympics a "minor infringement" and then completely contradicts themselves with their insane idea of punishing the innocent.

Um, no. What's so insane about banning a federation if they've repeatedly broken the rules? Still confused? :rolleyes:

Beefcake
03-01-2010, 06:16 AM
So beefie...it's an extreme solution to a relatively minor infringement. :yawn: Get over it.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Minor infringement? They were INELIGIBLE for competition, so their results MUST be stricken from those Olympics.

"Extreme solution" to pull those illegitimate medals? Seems like the only fair solution to me. They've already had their decade of glory, and can continue believing that they are medalists. But the medals themselves must be returned. I don't even care if the USA is elevated to bronze; just that the girls who cheated and their nation do NOT get credit for their cheated medals.

And please, anybody, don't tell me that those girls in this case or any of the earlier ones (including Beijing's Chinese embryos) don't know how old they are. They do/did, their parents do/did, their schools do/did, their federations do/did.

Rob
03-04-2010, 02:26 PM
Now why didn't we falsify the age of Nastia Liukin in 2004? If we had, she might have been 2-time Olympic all around champion. ;)

Not to mention what her beam, bar, and floor scores would have done for the team event.

Too bad those 2000 US gymnasts had to take so much flack from Bela Lugosi, um Karolyi, for finishing 4th and having "no backbone."


ETA: There is a separate thread going on for the Chinese gymnast issue, don't know if admins want to merge.

Sasha'sSpins
03-05-2010, 05:32 AM
Idiotic and paternalistic age limit rules aside, I'll be repulsed if that choppy American team gets handed a bronze 10 years after the fact. The 2000 Chinese squad was gorgeous. :swoon:

They may have been 'choppy' as you put it-but they didn't cheat like the Chinese team did. The fact that the Chinese had the better gymnasts doesn't make it okay for them to keep Olympic medals they won with an unfair field of play advantage over most teams there who respected the rules

mkats
03-05-2010, 05:33 AM
Ivana Hong has torn her ACL, will have surgery in a few weeks, and will be out for 7 months, damn it. :(