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judgejudy27
07-02-2010, 09:55 PM
Sam wasnt even 1st backup on anything other than vault though. On the other events the whole team other than maybe Sloan on beam possibly, and of course Sacramone on bars (by default by not even doing bars) was better than her. That made her even more of a filler.

It is too bad the U.S didnt find a 3rd bars worker for Beijing. I think being so far behind going into beam compounded the pressure on the team.

VIETgrlTerifa
07-02-2010, 10:15 PM
That's for sure. It's amazing how obvious the deficit was for the U.S. on UB leading up to the Beijing games, and despite a great pool of UB workers coming up the ranks from 2004, Barta (Marta + Bela) and Co. were able to break all of them and we were forced to use Shawn Johnson for UB in the TF. The writing was on the wall before the games started. Of course, hindsight is 50/50.

One thing that was quite obvious in the past quad's COP was that Bars was where the real scoring potential was. That's how Nastia was able to win the Beijing AA with a cushion going into FX.

That's funny because for Athens, the U.S. was strong on beam and UB but weak on Vault so we desperately needed Anna Hatch (who couldn't do anything else) because she was the only one who could score a 9.5+ on that event. Of course, the FX scoring was incredibly harsh regarding the dance jumps/leaps. Those stupid jumps impacted the scores by two tenths more or less (in Courtney Kupets' case, it was more like four or five tenths in TF). Of course it didn't help that Courtney McCool benefited from extreme score inflation at Olympic Trials and was proved to be pretty much useless in Athens.

I wish Tabitha Yim had been healthy for Athens. We could've seriously used her on Beam and FX.

Sorry for going back down memory lane.

judgejudy27
07-02-2010, 10:19 PM
Yeah it was too bad the U.S had too many strong workers on bars in 2004 then not enough in 2008. And how in 2004 they had to take someone like Hatch only for vault due to the huge hold on that event.

Courtney McCool IMO is one of the most overrated gymnasts I can remember. She didnt even win Junior Nationals the year before and suddenly she shows up and is somehow one of the 3 "locks" for the Olympic team even before Nationals. Please. She had good leg form but I never liked her gymnstics. It always looked like her shoulders were hugging her head. I dont think McCool would ever been left off the team even if she hadnt been 2nd at the Trials. Too bad as she turned out to be dead weight at the Games itself. So I dont know what they would have done if Yim and or Memmel were healthy. Humphreys and Bhardwaj would have been the first ones vurnerable to being bumped I suspect since Hatch was always going to be taken for vaulting.

VIETgrlTerifa
07-02-2010, 10:25 PM
judgejudy27, say that Memmel and Yim were healthy and were in contention for the Athens team, who would you have put on the team and which apparatuses would they have done in Preliminaries and TF?

Athens speculation has always been fun for me because it was the first Olympics using 6-3-3, and it seemed that everything that could've went wrong went wrong for the Americans.

Loves_Shizuka
07-02-2010, 10:59 PM
Sorry to butt in, but I just want to pick up on McCool; I wasn't following gym so keenly in 2004 (a slightly "dull" era in WAG IMO) but why was she considered so good and a "lock" for the team; I always remember how she'd made the team even before trials? Or something? Anyway, I only really saw her Athens performances and a few other things on youtube, and I'm at a total :confused: as to why she was so highly rated? I know the Games were rough for her, but why was she such a favourite prior to that? It really frustrates me when I can't understand apparent hype, so could someone help me out please? :lol:

Lara
07-02-2010, 11:11 PM
I thought it was harsh not to even use McCool for bars in the team finals. She didn't screw up there in prelims IIRC and had at least equal potential to Carly Patterson.

Overrated perhaps, but she got bum treatment in Athens IMO.

chipso1
07-02-2010, 11:18 PM
Sorry to butt in, but I just want to pick up on McCool; I wasn't following gym so keenly in 2004 (a slightly "dull" era in WAG IMO) but why was she considered so good and a "lock" for the team; I always remember how she'd made the team even before trials? Or something? Anyway, I only really saw her Athens performances and a few other things on youtube, and I'm at a total :confused: as to why she was so highly rated? I know the Games were rough for her, but why was she such a favourite prior to that? It really frustrates me when I can't understand apparent hype, so could someone help me out please? :lol:

McCool had won the Athens Test Event leading up to the Games, had a fairly good showing at Nationals in June of 2004, and then went 8-for-8 and placed second behind Kupets at the 2004 Olympic Trials (where Patterson fell twice on beam throughout the competition). The rule back then was the top two AAers from Trials automatically qualified to the Olympic team (as long as they could "prove their readiness").

I feel like McCool kinda threw a wrench into the USAG's plans for Athens. No one really saw Patterson falling off the beam twice and everyone expected her and Kupets to go 1-2 at Trials (they had tied for the Nat'l title a few weeks earlier).

I firmly believe if Patterson had qualified the Olympic spot at Trials instead of McCool, that she (McCool) probably wouldn't have been on the Olympic Team. I think Marta would have selected either Memmel or Vise (both UB World champs).

McCool capitalized on others' mistakes and rightfully won her spot, even though she was (almost) completely useless in Athens.

VIETgrlTerifa
07-02-2010, 11:25 PM
I thought it was harsh not to even use McCool for bars in the team finals. She didn't screw up there in prelims IIRC and had at least equal potential to Carly Patterson.


Because Patterson simply outscored her on UB during preliminaries. That's why they used Mohini on FX in Team Finals even though Terin was considered more of a FX worker than anything else and was thought to go to Athens as a FX worker. Plus it helped that Mohini was the only American to qualify for FX finals. It was a major surprise when not only was UB her highest scoring event, but that she ended up qualifying for UB finals and winning the silver medal. I remember after the Olympic preliminaries, Terin was quoted in saying that she didn't know what she was a specialist on anymore.

Also, Carly demonstrated she was more mentally ready to handle the pressure than McCool who just had a meltdown. There were reports that McCool kept the others up because she kept crying about her performance during Preliminaries. Of course those are just rumors.

chipso1
07-02-2010, 11:25 PM
I thought it was harsh not to even use McCool for bars in the team finals. She didn't screw up there in prelims IIRC and had at least equal potential to Carly Patterson.

Overrated perhaps, but she got bum treatment in Athens IMO.

Maybe, but I think Carly had the higher scoring potential (she was regularly scoring in the high 9.5s and even the 9.6 range in the months leading up to Athens).

In prelims, McCool scored a 9.575, while Carly scored 9.600 (third highest behind Kupets and Humphrey). Carly was actually much improved on UB by Athens, and her pirouette-Tkatchev-pak combo was actually really good.

judgejudy27
07-03-2010, 12:57 AM
judgejudy27, say that Memmel and Yim were healthy and were in contention for the Athens team, who would you have put on the team and which apparatuses would they have done in Preliminaries and TF?

Athens speculation has always been fun for me because it was the first Olympics using 6-3-3, and it seemed that everything that could've went wrong went wrong for the Americans.

If it were up to me in this case I would have put Memmel, Yim, Patterson, Kupets, Hatch, and Humphreys on the team. I hate to leave Mohini off but they dont really need another AA gymnast anymore, and choosing between her and Hatch on vault I choose Hatch.

Preliminaries I would have put:

Vault- Kupets, Humphreys, Memmel, Patterson, Hatch
Bars- Yim, Patterson, Humprheys, Memmel, Kupets
Beam- Memmel, Humphreys, Yim, Kupets, Patterson
Floor- Memmel, Kupets, Humphreys, Yim, Patterson

Team finals depending the performances on prelims too (which are obviously unknown):

Vault- Memmel, Patterson, Hatch
Bars- Humphreys, Memmel, Kupets
Beam- Yim, Kupets, Patterson
Floor- Humphreys, Yim, Patterson

HeatherC
07-03-2010, 06:11 AM
Thinking about Athens just reminds me of how hard I took it when Hollie didn't make that team. I was (and still am to some extent) so heartbroken for her. :fragile:

judgejudy27
07-03-2010, 06:22 AM
I wouldnt have put Hollie on the team personally. Her injury had set her back too much and she was someone who had to be at her absolute best to make it. Her beam the couple times she showcased it was really not that strong, far below her 2003 level. Her bars looked pretty strong the couple times I saw it, but she actually fell on bars at the selection camp. Considering she was an event specialist she just didnt show enough to merit making it. I still would have put Hollie on the team over McCool however, so if she had made it over McCool I wouldnt have complained but that was never happening of course.

I am probably one of the only ones but I would have thought of putting Schwikert on the team. She had been showing improvement as the year went, she was a past Olympian, and she was someone who tended to rise to the occasion for events that mattered. She was also very strong on bars and floor, and reasonably strong on any event, if she were at her best.

asdf334
07-03-2010, 07:09 AM
Vault- Memmel, Patterson, Hatch
Bars- Humphreys, Memmel, Kupets
Beam- Yim, Kupets, Patterson
Floor- Humphreys, Yim, Patterson

If those are your 6, I would swap out Bhardwaj for Humphrey. While all three of those vaulters would have been doing DTYs, a 'typical' vault from Mohini would have added more to the team total and been a safer choice than Memmel or Patterson. To me this justifies the 0.1 or so that would have been lost by using her on bars instead of Terin. Floor would be a close call between the two, but I would give Mohini the edge here as well.

vesperholly
07-03-2010, 08:27 AM
I think some of Mohini's biggest contributions came in being a leader for the team. I just loved her and it thrilled me to bits that she not only made the team, but came away with a medal and made floor finals. And the full-twisting Pak was just too cool.

chipso1
07-03-2010, 04:03 PM
I am probably one of the only ones but I would have thought of putting Schwikert on the team. She had been showing improvement as the year went, she was a past Olympian, and she was someone who tended to rise to the occasion for events that mattered. She was also very strong on bars and floor, and reasonably strong on any event, if she were at her best.

Nope, Tasha was on "my team," too. :) I thought she was completely hosed at Trials scoring-wise, but so many things were working against her. First, like I said before the whole McCool coming out of nowhere thing kind of threw a wrench into Martha's plans for the team, and then they had Bhardwaj overperforming too and getting stronger and stronger as the months passed on. I think after Nationals in 2004, a lot of people wrote off Tasha (including Martha), so when she performed so well at Trials and the Olympic selection camp, they were thrown off guard.

In my perfect world, the 2004 team would have been Patterson, Kupets, Schwikert, Memmel, Hatch and Yim. At least I can take a little comfort in the fact that Tasha now has an Olympic bronze from 2000. :)