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judiz
04-24-2010, 10:59 AM
Johnny has said that the first thing Galina did when he started working with her is change how he controlled the landings on his jumps.

hailstorm
04-24-2010, 04:21 PM
What I don't like about COP arguments is that people tend to talk about how skaters like Chan have COP-friendly programs and criticize Weir for not having them, and often mention that his programs are about as empty as Plushenko's, but then, *why* does Plushenko (and sometimes Joubert) get such high scores if the COP argument is valid? Just because of the quad? To me, the argument doesn't quite add up.

Carolla5501
04-24-2010, 04:31 PM
Well a lot of us have no good explanation for Plushy... besides "skating while Russian"

tarotx
04-24-2010, 04:37 PM
I wonder if Johnny and his show will question his placement concerning Plushy?

silverling
04-24-2010, 04:52 PM
Why is it always has to be Johnny to blame? was it only Johnny's fault? There were no
fault in the judging at all? There were full of faults in the judging. not only Johnny's
score but lot's of judging were wrong. it was full of filty and faulty judging. Shame on you judges. Some skaters didn't got deduction for wrong edge but some got deduction for same wrong edge take off. and some were underotated but didn't got deduction. and a skater who always has gotten deduction for wrong flip jump suddenly didn't got deduction as soon as he became world champ. isn't it strange? and a skater's pcs suddenly soared up crazily as soon as he become world champ. or at a point, even the program and choreography didn't change at all.
and also some skater didn't got deduction for wrong edge take off of luts jumps especially only Japanese skaters. and so on and on and some skaters got lower marks if they were ralatively new or young and also i mean, there were more, the lists can go more and more...
not Johnny's one but there were a lot wrong and faulty judging. in woman skating, also, I can list several unfair judgings.
There were cleary faults in judging. The judging were cleary faulty and why Johnny have to
only blame himself? Why not he can't blame judging when there were clearly lot's of faults of judging? The judging were joke. if not, it was almost joke. Lot's of countries commetators also said the judging is joke and lot's of commentators were shock at the scores not only Johnny's score but by lot's of skaters score. The judging were cleary had problem. not only about Johnny. but almost all judging was unfair and not consistent. I clearly saw the politics in figure skating judging. 2010 Vancouver Oly figure skating judging was not consistent at all. Shame on you judges and ISU. I'm not talking about only Johnny case. the whole men and women and pair and dance were not consistent at all. and there were clearly polictics. in ice dance- there were a lot political judging. In men- there were also. not consistent judging at all. The judging can not be excluded from blame. they are the one to blame. They are clearly the one to blame. I am a little furious with isu. It was not a sports. Do you think isu is clean organization?with no polictics or influce of money and with no power and influence of sponsors? (most of them are japanese companies.) Do you think there were no fault of the judges? The judges and ISU should be investigated I think. The power of money, the economics of money. - Every sports
has it. every organization work in the direction to make more money. but the Olympic judging was outrageous. I thought it will be much more consistent than other grand prix competition.
but I was shocked cause it was olympic. I expected good and fair judging and fair game
cause it was Olympic. but especially men competition was lot joke. I was not a figure fan untill sep 2009. and I saw last seasons EVERY figure skating competitons. ( I saw some of 2008 season competition too) so this Olympic was my first time seeing figure whole competition.
and I was shocked by the judging and the judges. I'm surprised at they are still like that in 2010. - inconsistent and unfair and dirty... and political.... The power of sponsors and sports business were there clearly. Why Johnny have to blame himself? when there is one who clearly did faults and committed sins. Why Johnny had to say as it was his fault? It was not his fault but judges' fault. even the spin mistake was not his fault.
there were something wrong in that spot of the ice cause he skated almost last after several skaters. The judges should be blamed. Maybe Johnny can be criticized a little for emty program which I don't agree. but it is the judging who have to be mainly criticized cause it was hugely faulty and full of faulty judging.-I'm not meaning only Johnny's one. They(the ISU judges and ISU) should be punished or at least be criticized hugely. Did they kill figure skating that night(men competitin night)? Yes they did. For the sake of keep earning current sponsers' money, I think they did good job. Most sponsers of ISU will still sponsering them. The popularity of Japan will keep going. for that sake, they did good job. ISU don't care about skaters or the correct and fair judging, they only care about their money, I think. Johnny got 152?3 at grand prix final 2009 with much less combination jumps and triples and more wonky jumps. but 156?7 with that performance and jumps at oly? when all skater's scores were flared up hugely? yes right, the judging were so correct and not faulty.
(Did you see how chatty Lysacek was at the grand prix final 2009 with the ISU president? I have that video. He didn't talked to oda or Weir. He only went to lysacek and they were so chatty. I'm just saying. and he didn't even talk to oda or Weir( but a lot to Lysacek, they seemed to know each other well like they met a lot. They were so close together. I'm just saying.......)- and I don't like Lysacek acting like this. How can a current figure skate athlete be that chatty with ISU president? before Oly? is it completely appropriate behavior? I don't think so.....

PeterG
04-24-2010, 05:24 PM
Why is it always has to be Johnny to blame? was it only Johnny's fault? There were no
fault in the judging at all? There were full of faults in the judging. not only Johnny's
score but lot's of judging were wrong. it was full of filty and faulty judging. Shame on you judges. Some skaters didn't got deduction for wrong edge but some got deduction for same wrong edge take off. and some were underotated but didn't got deduction. and a skater who always has gotten deduction for wrong flip jump suddenly didn't got deduction as soon as he became world champ. isn't it strange? and a skater's pcs suddenly soared up crazily as soon as he become world champ. or at a point, even the program and choreography didn't change at all.
and also some skater didn't got deduction for wrong edge take off of luts jumps especially only Japanese skaters. and so on and on and some skaters got lower marks if there were ralatively new or young and also i mean, there were more, the lists can go more and more...
not Johnny's one but there were a lot wrong and faulty judging. in woman skating, also, I can list several unfair judgings.
There were cleary faults in judging. The judging were cleary faulty and why Johnny have to
only blame himself? Why not he can't blame judging when there were clearly lot's of faults of judging? The judging were joke. if not, it was almost joke. Lot's of countries commetators also said the judging is joke and lot's of commentators were shock at the scores not only Johnny's score but by lot's of skaters score. The judging were cleary had problem. not only about Johnny. but almost all judging was unfair and not consistent. I clearly saw the politics in figure skating judging. 2010 Vancouver Oly figure skating judging was not consistent at all. Shame on you judges and ISU. I'm not talking about only Johnny case. the whole men and women and pair and dance were not consistent at all. and there were clearly polictics. in ice dance- there were a lot political judging. In men- there were also. not consistent judging at all. The judging can not be excluded from blame. there are the one to blame. There are clearly the one to blame. I am a little furious with isu. It was not a sports. Do you think isu is clean organization?with no polictics or influce of money and with no power and influence of sponsors? (most of them are japanese companies.) Do you think there were no fault of the judges? The judges and ISU should be investigated I think. The power of money, the economics of money. - Every sports
has it. every organization work in the direction to make more money. but the Olympic judging was outrageous. I thought it will be much more consistent than other grand prix competition.
but I was shocked cause it was olympic. I expected good and fair judging and fair game
cause it was Olympic. but especially men competition was lot joke. I was not a figure fan untill sep 2009. and I saw last seasons EVERY figure skating competitons. ( I saw some of 2008 season competition too) so this Olympic was my first time seeing figure whole competition.
and I was shocked by the judging and the judges. I'm surprised at they are still like that in 2010. - inconsistent and unfair and dirty... and political.... The power of sponsors and sports business were there clearly. Why Johnny have to blame himself? when there is one who clearly did faults and committed sins. Why Johnny had to say as it was his fault? It was not his fault but judges' fault. even the spin mistake was not his fault.
there were something wrong in that spot of the ice cause he skated almost last after several skaters. The judges should be blamed. Maybe Johnny can be criticized a little for emty program which I don't agree. but it is the judging who have to be mainly criticized cause it was hugely faulty and full of faulty judging.-I'm not meaning only Johnny's one. They(the ISU judges and ISU) should be punished or at least be criticized hugely. Did they kill figure skating that night(men competitin night)? Yes they did. For the sake of keep earning current sponsers' money, I think they did good job. Most sponsers of ISU will still sponsering them. The popularity of Japan will keep going. for that sake, they did good job. ISU don't care about skaters or the correct and fair judging, they only care about their money, I think. Johnny got 152?3 at grand prix final with much less combination jumps and triples and more wonky jumps. but 156?7 with that performance and jumps? when all skater's scores were flared up hugely? yes right, the judging were so correct and not faulty.
(Did you see how chatty Lysacek was at the grand prix final 2009 with the ISU president? I have that video. He didn't talked to oda or Weir. He only went to lysacek and they were so chatty. I'm just saying. and he didn't even talk to oda or Weir( but a lot to Lysacek, they seemed to know each other well like they met a lot. They were so close together. I'm just saying.......)

Ow.

That hurt my eyes.

igniculus
04-24-2010, 05:37 PM
The judges should be blamed. Maybe Johnny can be criticized a little for emty program which I don't agree. but it is the judging who have to be mainly criticized cause it was hugely faulty and full of faulty judging.-I'm not meaning only Johnny's one. They(the ISU judges and ISU) should be punished or at least be criticized hugely.

Imho, if Johnny's started to skate like he did at the Olys much earlier (maxing out jumps, adding some arm variations here and there, etc.), the system would have awarded him with points much sooner. He did not, that's it's such a surprise he skated so well technically and still didn't place high enough.

I like COP because it rewards consistency and development, it forces skaters to be attentive on all aspects of their skating, not being just technical and just artistic. Skaters who play along, share the glory, the ones who constantly complain, usually end up bitter, out of medals. Skating has reached to a point where there is not that much left to develop jump-wise, the skaters bodies barely handle quads already. So it is heading into a different direction where the difference lies in the technical difficulty of the non-jumping elements.

The black holes like the :confused: and :duh: scores of Joubert and Plushenko and the reputation based judging is not the fault of the system, it's the fault of the people. It's something that is indeed bad and has to go.


Did they kill figure skating that night(men competitin night)? Yes they did.

No, they didn't, since Plushenko didn't win, and the freeskate most people are going to remember will be Daisuke's - deservingly so.


Johnny got 152?3 at grand prix final with much less combination jumps and triples and more wonky jumps. but 156?7 with that performance and jumps? when all skater's scores were flared up hugely? yes right, the judging were so correct and not faulty.

The GPF (along with the 4CC) is usually the competition with the most inflated marks. It's no use to compare them to other competitions.


(Did you see how chatty Lysacek was at the grand prix final 2009 with the ISU president? I have that video. He didn't talked to oda or Weir. He only went to lysacek and they were so chatty. I'm just saying. and he didn't even talk to oda or Weir( but a lot to Lysacek, they seemed to know each other well like they met a lot. They were so close together. I'm just saying.......)

So? Evan was the reigning champ (GPF and WCH), and a potential athlete that could bring back the popularity of men's skating in the US, meaning more broadcasting time and possible sponsors for the sport and the audience. It's all about business.

Sylvia
04-24-2010, 05:39 PM
The Sundance Channel website's home page for Be Good Johnny Weir has outtakes from the series posted.
For those interested, here's the link (includes a clip of Johnny at the 2010 Independent Spirit Awards): http://www.sundancechannel.com/johnny-weir/

jamesy
04-24-2010, 05:52 PM
Ow.

That hurt my eyes.
And then you quoted the entire thing and made me hurt my mouse finger scrolling past it all again. :P :saint: :lol:

Jaana
04-24-2010, 06:01 PM
What I don't like about COP arguments is that people tend to talk about how skaters like Chan have COP-friendly programs and criticize Weir for not having them, and often mention that his programs are about as empty as Plushenko's, but then, *why* does Plushenko (and sometimes Joubert) get such high scores if the COP argument is valid? Just because of the quad? To me, the argument doesn't quite add up.

Well, e.g. Chan and Takahashi get a lot better PCS than Weir, because they do have CoP-friendly programmes (= excellent choreography, etc.):

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/SEG002.HTM

Plushenko and Joubert get (undeservedly, IMO) high PCS, because of reputation, and that is nothing new in figure skating, LOL. Weir does not have a collection of medals from major international competitions, actually only one WC bronze medal from 2008.

I would say that in Vancouver Weir had the bad luck to skate after Takahashi, whose performance and choreography made Weir´s own limitations and that of his empty choreography look even more glaring...

kwanfan1818
04-24-2010, 06:07 PM
Plushenko and Joubert get undeservedly high PCS, because of reputation, and that is nothing new in figure skating, LOL.
And the one time Plushenko didn't -- his Olympic SP transition score which was still high according to the criteria -- Joseph Inman became a corrupt villain peddling influence when he asked that the criteria, not reputation, be used to judge. Add that to being judged on whether scores are in the corridor instead of meeting the objective criteria, and, yes, there is a problem with judging that the ISU codified.

Weir has never given the judges a reason to stretch the corridor or to make a spirited defense for going outside it.

caseyedwards
04-24-2010, 06:10 PM
Weir had 4 jumping passes after the halfway point while both Chan and Takahashi had 5 including a triple axel. Weir frontloaded his 2 triple axels. With COP its very important to do a triple axel at the halfway point.

hailstorm
04-24-2010, 07:09 PM
Plushenko and Joubert get (undeservedly, IMO) high PCS, because of reputation, and that is nothing new in figure skating, LOL. Weir does not have a collection of medals from major international competitions, actually only one WC bronze medal from 2008.

So, doesn't that imply politics?



I would say that in Vancouver Weir had the bad luck to skate after Takahashi, whose performance and choreography made Weir´s own limitations and that of his empty choreography look even more glaring...

Takahashi's performances are usually good, but at the Olympics, his LP did not blow me away.

He had two < and two !, and he fell, and his skating was tentative, which is a quality that others often cite when Weir or others have low PCS.

tarotx
04-24-2010, 07:24 PM
There is politics in skating but not the kind that Johnny has been implying-IE that he wasn't on the podium because US's Evan was already on the podium. And I personally feel that Takahashi rigthfully earned his bronze and would have had Johnny 4th or 5th but very close to Stephan and not Takahashi. I feel that Takahashi should have been leading after the short.

igniculus
04-24-2010, 07:25 PM
I feel that Takahashi should have been leading after the short.

ITA with this.